rumrunner

Hows that then ,what i have stated is the way it is ,you might get ****ed off ,because you cant get graded .but you only do domestic work so you dont need to
what bit is ****e then
i understand far better than you how this industry works and if you read my posts carefully ,you will understand that
shakey would not get graded as an Electrician with his qualifications alone thats the point in having improvers.so they can improve there work skills and carryout work to the correct standard and within a sensable amount off time
im not saying its right and im sure the likes of shakey are not happy about it ,but the JIB /ECA make the rules,

Cirrus

Rum, the JIB counts for **** and I would never join them even if my career depended on it. At the moment I am in domestic but prior to that was in industrial. Very few sparks nowadays seem to join the JIB as who are they to set the rules? Ooooh, BUPA membership eh? Ooooh, underpaid gradings too? I have worked on some massive jobs in the last few years and the ECA or JIB have had NO input whatsoever. You seem to live in a very blinkered 'old school' world Rum and guess what - change happens. Do you know - most people don't even worry about unions these days! I bet you do though eh my friend??

rumrunner

Im not a union member and my JIB card is out of date ,i still get work though ,but thats maybee because its not in my agents interest to question it.
As far as the ECA are concerned who do you think gaurentees the banks money against jobs going tits up, im no fan of the ECA ,JIB or any of them but underestimate the power of the the ECA at your peril

Moog

Required qualifications are based upon what the employer is willing to accept. If the employer is domestic and job is not insured then "Domestic Installer" is the minimum level of qualification. If the job is big enough to require insurance then the insurer decides on the level of qualification and usually goes for the conventional "Electrician" qualifications (these are somewhat vague and open to interpretation ). As the paper pusher don't know the required qualifications either, they will go on published standards, taking the various bodies and guilds opinion so as to cover their arses. All this means is that even on the biggest jobs the definition of electrician is wide open to interpretation, they will of course employ the cheapest people they can get away with and give them the best sounding job title they can get away with. So an electrician is someone who works on electrical installations and hasn't harmed anyone yet. There is no equivalent to CORGI registered for sparkies so if you are working in the field then you are an electrician regardless of what the various self interested bodies say. As to doctor being a definative title, it isn't medical doctors have the title from when they start on the course not when they have finished. Engineers should require a BEng as a minimum but they don't see Computer Engineer, Sanitation Engineer etc. Unless you are working in a field where the job title is clearly defined then you can call yourself anything you want. I personally like the sound of "Principle Electron Master 3rd Degree" ( 3rd is the highest level attainable before anyone tries to out do me, why, because I say so ) As an aside my brother is a Biochemical Engineer ( too many acronyms to mention ) and he can sign off industrial electrical work even though he doesn't have any electrical qualifications whatsoever. If you don't like this situation you can push for definitive minimum qualifications via you guild/body, but don't be surprised when you find that they aren't interested either. They make their money by having the most people depend upon them for their certification rights, lower minimum qualifications means more people, mean more money for them.

Shakey

'kin ell Rum, you are really lighting my fire

Firstly, you dont know what qualifiactions i have got
Secondly you dont know that i wouldnt get graded as an electrician
Thirdly - 'improve my work skills'? Are taking the p*ss???

25 fuc***g years i have been in this game

i have worked commercial industrial and domestic

i have worked installation, maintenance and every point in between

We have talked many times on this forum Rum, and I have answered may of your more in depth questions (harmonics anybody?)

I dont recall asking you ANY

And you think i should be an improver and 'improve my work skills to work to the correct standard'?????????

i was teaching other people to improve THEIR work skills when i was in my mid-twenties Rum

well this 'improver' is currently sitting in a large detatched house with an income pushing 45k

cant wait to become a full electrician like you Rum then i can earn some real money

*Shakey bows to mister successful*

rumrunner

I sugest you read everything ive written again ,as you have missed the point ,the jib/eca would not grade you as an electrician.
i dont doubt your electrical expertese ,but from a contractors point of view how do you prove you can do the job?

wayne

f**king hell ,i saw this post and thought; hmmm lets see how it develops .
i come back 2 days later to find cirrus using language and abuse of a forum member ,rum winding shakey up and most people agreeing something even if not in the same language
shakey you've posted your qualis before now ,but the jib wont recognize you as an INSTALLATION electrician you do the qualis they want ,i had the same problem ......
yes you can wire /rewire half the country in one go but tough, where's your INSTALLATION qualis ?
shakey you said maintenance /car/post nuclear physics are /can be electricians .Generally when people talk about electricians they mean installation or am i now supposed to say "hi im an installation electrician "get real, leave that to the auto electricians
the sooner the gradings enforced the better .

rumrunner

hi
i would say hes an electrical engineer rather than an electrician

WarrenG

Well I certainly started an interested subject here! I am sure most people on this site are more than qualified as an electrician, I think the bigger problem is in the organisations that promote it.

Who is to say that the JIB,ECA, NICEIC, NAPIT, etc,etc are the best........the bottom line is they all out to make as much money out of you as they can. If you have x,y,z qualifications that you can bet your bottom dollar they would want something else.

Lets face it, £65 for the regs book, onsite guide book, new guidance note 3 etc, etc,

wattsup

As I said earlier, on the water front. And it is. The govenment have made it so. It is quite ridiculous The power houses behind have lobbied the vunerable mp's to make it so.
The jib and the eca are a power to themselves. They need dislodging. I'm 50/50 ish. But the forementioned should not be allowed to dictate, whom works at which job, depending upon registration to the said contract. In actual fact it is illegal, If you have an electrical qualification then you have a right to apply and work.

The industry would and will find its own level: have you done this sort of work before blah blah blah, if you lie and say yes, you would be soon found out.

I have been jib for registerd for zillions of years and only once asked to produce evidence.

I'ts a joke..they don't give ****...just lie if an agency worker. Must be jib apporoved on job ads is a load of bollox, they do not check