Mouse been in a wiring loom.

Czar · May 23, 2017

Gents (and any ladies)

I have a B8 3.0ltr avant se. It's a lovely motor. Just purchased, sold as seen.

The cars been ace for 3 weeks then I adjusted the passenger wing mirror and got a dynamic steering fault light come up. 10 seconds later a EPS light. Now they won't go. Looking at the car there are a few nibbles in the air intake plenum , nothing gone through but not to say there couldn't be issues deeper in the loom. A specialist in bradford had a quick look and suggested main dealer after his diagnostic said the dynamic steering module had failed. He spoke to a pal at Audi who said they never replaced one and couldn't tell him where it was because they never replaced them, "they don't fail".

So today main dealer on canal Rd :Audi. I told the lady the above and that it might need wiring looking at. She rang me after 8 hours and told me the same back, but that it could be very costly trying to iD a loom break.

I am a controls engineer. All be it building but I know how this stuff works but I don't know about the Audi diagnostic. I am presuming the port in car is into the Cars ecu which I am assuming at the moment that mine is not communicating with the dynamic steering module and as such can't analyse the steering position which is causing the EPS failure. Any good ideas welcome. Tomorrow I am going to have to suggest a direction to Audi. Replace the loom? Pull the dash out? Am I right in assuming Audi cannot connect to each module or even plug into the connectors at the modules to test the wiring for continuity?

Anyone know where to get the wiring schematic for a motor like this? Any really good auto electricians on this site local to leeds? This isn't just a plug in and fault clear. It's a rodent hunt.

Wilko · May 23, 2017

Hello Czar and Welcome to the Forum.
Sorry to hear of you troubles. I'm sure that Audi will have a specific diagnosis available from their test gear. Whether that's 100% correct is another thing, unfortunately. If you're not been given a specific fault that they'll chase, I'd be very reluctant to tell them what they should do. Myself, I'd go to another service department. Cheers.

Specialist · May 23, 2017

Hi: I normally find a Google search pays dividends when i want unusual manuals, may have to buy from the states or Aus though.

Pat H · May 23, 2017

I'd be tempted to do a detailed visual inspection. Pull panels off and expose the loom. If its been nibbled there will be signs.

Deleted member 72666 · May 23, 2017

Would ElsaWin be of any use to you?

Specialist · May 23, 2017

Dealer grade manuals are showing as available from www.emanualsonline.com
Might be an idea to join some of the specialist audi forums as well, normally a good source of info & advice on good techs.

ruston · May 23, 2017

If you have rodent problems this could be anywhere in the harness.
They usually get in the vent ducts to eat the insulation.
Usually they chew the harness for access , so with a bit of luck it may be isolated.
If the wing mirror is the common denominator I would be looking in the area of the wheelarch up the door frame.

Czar · May 23, 2017

Cheers fellas.

I have spoken to the master tech at Audi. He seems confident he can find the fault in a day. He is starting his investigations by the wheel arch. Horrible little mouse.

I have asked him to photo document his investigation in-case its ongoing and I run out of cash.

ruston · May 23, 2017

Good luck .
That is one of their favourite places , that and the hidden open grill vent in most cars , usually at the rear near the bumper , or behind the rear wings/quarter panels.

UNG · May 23, 2017

Have a look at the Rosstech VAG-Com software you would need to buy a VAG interface (£15 - 20) the free version gives you access to most of the diagnostics but it's not too expensive to upgrade if you have a need for the advanced diagnostics

Specialist · May 27, 2017

Would have been nice to know how this turned out & if it actually got resolved.

Czar · May 27, 2017

Hey.

I have left the car with Audi. Spoke to the master tech there. Instructed them to base the wires from ecu to ecu to get the Comms working. First place they will check is the wheel arch to confirm the brake ecu is Comms up to the main ecu. I am on holiday so left with them. Told me to keep me updated and not go mad with the costs although £100/hr inc vat isn't a good rate. I figured thy had the skills to both trace the cables and put hjbgs back together with some care. I'll definitely update on both the fix and cost. Forums are worthless if it's a dead end thread. I asked them to print the wiring schematic and mark up the ok/ checked cables so if I had run out of cash I would at least have a progress report. The girl at Audi was skeptics about them sharing the wiring schematic but I will push like buggery for it if I run out of cash before a fix. Will keep you posted.

Specialist · May 27, 2017

Cheers for the update buddy, appreciate it. Where they think they're skills warrant a £100 an hour price tag is beyond me.
Anyway enjoy your holiday.

ruston · May 27, 2017

To be honest with the gear they have they should know in a crack what is not communicating. They are vary secretive about sharing information , unless you know someone.
It is highway robbery.

Specialist · May 28, 2017

In all honesty, I never entrust diagnostics to any dealer. What I can't do myself, goes to my tame mechanic or if he says it's above his paygrade then to one of the 2 diagnostic gurus we have locally. Never know them fail even where the dealers have given up.
The Audi forums may be your best friend for schematics.
Just did a Google search & factory-manuals.com are showing the avant b8 service manual.

ruston · May 28, 2017

To be fair though the available readers cannot read all the codes that the manufactuers/dealers can. They only give you what the OBD requirements are.

UNG · May 28, 2017

Specialist said:
Cheers for the update buddy, appreciate it. Where they think they're skills warrant a £100 an hour price tag is beyond me.
Anyway enjoy your holiday.

Something has to pay for the service manager, dealer principal and the evermore fancy showroom refurbs every few years
The guy on the tools will be lucky to get 10% of the hourly charge yet he is the one that has to decipher the fault codes to fix the fault although there is not to many of them that can do it without adopting a replace everything stance

ruston said:
To be honest with the gear they have they should know in a crack what is not communicating. They are vary secretive about sharing information , unless you know someone.
It is highway robbery.

A lot of it is all the gear no idea, I have heard stories of dealers quoting over £2000 to change several parts when a second opinion from an independent resulted in one part being changed and a bill of £150 and the problem solved

ruston said:
To be fair though the available readers cannot read all the codes that the manufactuers/dealers can. They only give you what the OBD requirements are.

There is plenty of competitively priced third party software and the interfaces available for a lot of vehicles that are as good if not better than what the dealers have. I have a few setups for checking my current and past vehicles, having got the information from the ECU's it is how you interpret it to effect the repair.

Single DTC's are easy to fix the issue comes when you get a list of DTC's and you have to work out the cascade of the faults and which DTC is the root cause the others

Czar · May 28, 2017

Yeah. I want the diagnostic tools. I have diagnostic software galore to interrogate building control systems and to integrate anything to anything through bespoke software drivers. The internet of things doesn't extend to cars yet. People fear cars being hacked. Why tie a car to another system.

In Dubai they supposedly have fire systems linked to both the fire station and then to traffic management smart roads. If a fire is detected the available service sets off and the smart roads clear a lane to the firey building. Getting people to think about the potential of integrating systems and how we can take benefit of one system and utilise it for another is tricky. Not everyone knows the benefit of other systems so at the moment we're just playing with ideas.

ruston · May 28, 2017

UNG said:
Something has to pay for the service manager, dealer principal and the evermore fancy showroom refurbs every few years
The guy on the tools will be lucky to get 10% of the hourly charge yet he is the one that has to decipher the fault codes to fix the fault although there is not to many of them that can do it without adopting a replace everything stance

A lot of it is all the gear no idea, I have heard stories of dealers quoting over £2000 to change several parts when a second opinion from an independent resulted in one part being changed and a bill of £150 and the problem solved

There is plenty of competitively priced third party software and the interfaces available for a lot of vehicles that are as good if not better than what the dealers have. I have a few setups for checking my current and past vehicles, having got the information from the ECU's it is how you interpret it to effect the repair.

Single DTC's are easy to fix the issue comes when you get a list of DTC's and you have to work out the cascade of the faults and which DTC is the root cause the others

I agree with you , the garage that I do some work for on a ' keep me busy ' basis , as I am just about knackered lol has the latest top of the range diagnostic equipment, and as you say a lot of the faults shown are a cascade of accumulated problems, when in fact the problem is somewhere else. There have recently been cases despite his all singing all dancing machine He has had to have the ecu read on the dealers equipment becuse the fault hadt shown up on it, repaired, but the code could not be cleared.
The vehicle was a Peugeot

Specialist · May 28, 2017

ruston said:
To be fair though the available readers cannot read all the codes that the manufactuers/dealers can. They only give you what the OBD requirements are.

Take a look at Gendan in Swansea, their diagnostic kit is pretty good.
Problem with manufacturers kit, is the people on the end of it. A lot of them nowadays just look at the computer & go oh that's what we need to change & when that bit doesn't work they'll change something else.
They don't know how the system works or how to actually pull out an Oscilloscope & Meter to actually diagnose the problem.
That's where a good independent wins, they have to know how things work & how to diagnose problems at grass roots level.

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