18th Edition - Poll - what are your thoughts?

[plugsandsparks]

I worked out that if both my neighbours either side of me charged up their electric vehicles over night along with mine, the supply cable in the road would melt, so i think an earth rod at every house is anticipating the inevitable... lol

 

[telectrix]

it's OK. a few more coal fired power stations could be built to cope with the extra demand for ELV charging. this would no only reverse all climate change policies and also revitalise the coal mining industry. everyone's a winner ( except the polar bears ).

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I'd introduce a regulation preventing the use of Hager style busbar arrangements. Today I had to dismantle the entire thing just to change two MCB's for RCBO's....and then the inevitable paranoia over whether I've got all the poxy prongs correctly located in the clamps. Resorted to a mirror in the end as usual.
I'd also have the person who designed said arrangement shot by firing squad.
That'll teach him.

 

[Midwest]

I'd introduce a regulation preventing the use of Hager style busbar arrangements. Today I had to dismantle the entire thing just to change two MCB's for RCBO's....and then the inevitable paranoia over whether I've got all the poxy prongs correctly located in the clamps. Resorted to a mirror in the end as usual.
I'd also have the person who designed said arrangement shot by firing squad.
That'll teach him.

You've got me worried, added two recently with no apparent issues

 

[UNG]

If the regs need to evolve with changing technology and the powers that be feel that they need to be changed and revised every 5 minutes why has training not followed the same route
In the 36 years since the introduction of the 15th edition the training has gone from 5 years to 5 weeks and this seems to be constantly reflected in the evolution of the regs. How can this be right in an evolving industry that needs to change it's regulations with increasing regularity to keep up with technology or is it technology we are trying to keep up with when you take into account the amendment 3 changes with metal consumer units for everything
It is difficult to quantify what effect Part P has had since it's introduction as the changes introduced in the 17th edition a couple of years later only confuse any analysis of whether safety has improved or not
The regs now seem to have a set timetable for change which is quite obviously based around revenue streams and not technology change selling a new set of books every few years and a course and exam every 10 years seems to be how we are being conditioned, any cheaper options such as loose leaf regs and guidance notes will probably not be considered as it will reduce the revenue streams needed to fund the IET juggernaut
My 14th edition regs back in 1976 and didn't change for 5 years they cost me £35 the latest set of regs, guidance notes, on site guide etc has changed 3 times since it's introduction and has probably cost at least 25 times that

 

[Pete999]

If the regs need to evolve with changing technology and the powers that be feel that they need to be changed and revised every 5 minutes why has training not followed the same route
In the 36 years since the introduction of the 15th edition the training has gone from 5 years to 5 weeks and this seems to be constantly reflected in the evolution of the regs. How can this be right in an evolving industry that needs to change it's regulations with increasing regularity to keep up with technology or is it technology we are trying to keep up with when you take into account the amendment 3 changes with metal consumer units for everything
It is difficult to quantify what effect Part P has had since it's introduction as the changes introduced in the 17th edition a couple of years later only confuse any analysis of whether safety has improved or not
The regs now seem to have a set timetable for change which is quite obviously based around revenue streams and not technology change selling a new set of books every few years and a course and exam every 10 years seems to be how we are being conditioned, any cheaper options such as loose leaf regs and guidance notes will probably not be considered as it will reduce the revenue streams needed to fund the IET juggernaut
My 14th edition regs back in 1976 and didn't change for 5 years they cost me £35 the latest set of regs, guidance notes, on site guide etc has changed 3 times since it's introduction and has probably cost at least 25 times that

Good post Mate, think the crux of the changes is a monetary one More changes=more Money=more training=more money again= more short course Electricians, sorry Domestic Installers being churned out.

 

[westward10]

What evidence does anyone have these changes are for the intention of monetary gain.

 

[Pete999]

What evidence does anyone have these changes are for the intention of monetary gain.

No real evidence Westy, just overwhelming amount of opinions gleaned in this thread, I mean, imo it's not rocket science is it?
A few changes here and there, requires new documents that electricians and prospective electricians must have, if they wish to belong to any of the CP Schemes, along with the courses and exams you will likely have to attend and pass, to gain the ubiquitous 18th Edition update ( without that qualification you cannot be classed as an Electrician, (apparently).
The question you need to ask is why?, and please don't say new technology brings new rules so we have to have these new books etc, what's wrong with a suggestion I and others have made, to produce BS 7671 and all the related documents in a ring binder edition, all new updates could be printed and sold at a fraction of the cost of a new set of books, as it is at the moment every body is a winner, except of course the poor Electricians who have to bear the costs of these updates, so, please tell me, is no body is making money out of all these changes?

 

[westward10]

I never said money wasn't being made, I asked what evidence is there that this is done for the intention of making money, there is a difference. You used to be able to get a ring binder copy not sure if you still can. I said in a previous post which seemed to have attracted some dislikes if you don't like it find another job otherwise get over it.

 

[Pete999]

I never said money wasn't being made, I asked what evidence is there that this is done for the intention of making money, there is a difference. You used to be able to get a ring binder copy not sure if you still can. I said in a previous post which seemed to have attracted some dislikes if you don't like it find another job otherwise get over it.

Don't need another job, I'm retired.

 

[Midwest]

If these bodies were organising changes purely to make money, other than to improve safety or make technical improvements etc, then they would trying to achieve a deception; the action of deceiving someone.

On deceiving someone, you would be acting dishonestly, illegally obtaining money from (someone) by deception or defrauding them. In acting in a way such that wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain, would be fraud. An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime at some time in the future, is conspiracy. Conspiracy to commit fraud (criminal), the maximum sentence is 10 years in prison.

I reckon we should take out a private prosecution, that way the 19th won't be out until February 2029

 

[Pete999]

If these bodies were organising changes purely to make money, other than to improve safety or make technical improvements etc, then they would trying to achieve a deception; the action of deceiving someone.

On deceiving someone, you would be acting dishonestly, illegally obtaining money from (someone) by deception or defrauding them. In acting in a way such that wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain, would be fraud. An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime at some time in the future, is conspiracy. Conspiracy to commit fraud (criminal), the maximum sentence is 10 years in prison.

I reckon we should take out a private prosecution, that way the 19th won't be out until February 2029

These parasites are far to clever to be accused of anything, that would stand up in a court of law, including a private prosecution, can you imagine the costs alone for trying to take out a PP.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I guess the evidence is simply the fact that they keep producing new books when they don't have to.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I guess the evidence is simply the fact that they keep producing new books when they don't have to.

Money grabbing aside, they also have to justify their existence, which means being seen to be doing something.

 

[Phil Thompson]

Money grabbing aside, they also have to justify their existence, which means being seen to be doing something.

Don't forget to finance their existence. Offices, staff, etc etc all needs paid for, hence the book sales, they likely wouldn't make enough of updates to cover operating costs.

 

[Octopus]

So the poll has ended, its not a massive sample but judging by comments at the wholesalers its probably on the money!

So the 49% have the majority

 

[mattg4321]

Does Westie work for the IET?!

The fact that the regs get updated every 2/3 years like clockwork regardless is evidence enough for me that it's being done at least partly for monetary gain.

The fact that the costs of buying said new regs,osg, guidance notes etc etc is so expensive is another indicator it's being done for monetary gain.

I'd suggest the whole process could be streamlined and costs could be reduced significantly if some common sense was used and some unnecessary personnel shed - with zero impact on safety. However this could be said about most things in modern day nanny state, jobsworth Britain.

 

[UNG]

It has been said in the past that buying the regs is just like buying a tool to do your job for the amount spent on the regs and associated books I would expect quality tooling that lasts longer than 3 years
I'm waiting for the time when the revenue seekers split the regs sections down into multiple books as they did when the guidance notes were produced
The regs exam is only checking a persons ability to read a book but why does it need a course and an exam to prove it
Over the last 10 years how much has the 17th edition and it's amendments cost electricians when everyone is trying to cut costs there appears to be no restraint from the IET even before the appearance of the 18th edition they are already talking about amendment 1
I'm thinking the time to get out is getting nearer looking around at the jobs being advertised it is possible to earn the same or more without the cost and responsibility electrical work has