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Having worked with machinery imported from China I would be extremely surprised if all the components are actually branded. A good chance they're just copied.
 
En 60204-1, which the panel should have been built to states the maximum control voltage as 277v
 
A DOL starter has a 230v control circuit in it.

Surely you are checking the machine is fit for purpose and safe, so as long as the panel and components carry a suitable IP rating for the environment and the correct warning labels are in place I cant see the problem
 
A DOL starter has a 230v control circuit in it.

Surely you are checking the machine is fit for purpose and safe, so as long as the panel and components carry a suitable IP rating for the environment and the correct warning labels are in place I cant see the problem

I don't think you have much experience in panel design or appropriate regs. As there's far more to it than that.
 
A DOL starter has a 230v control circuit in it.

Surely you are checking the machine is fit for purpose and safe, so as long as the panel and components carry a suitable IP rating for the environment and the correct warning labels are in place I cant see the problem

I wouldn't know where to start with machinery control, but even I know that there is a hell of a lot more to it than that!
IP rating and warning labels won't keep operators safe from entrapment, injury and/or death. It takes a lot more in the way of risk assessment and safety system design to achieve a safe piece of machinery.
 
The question was is a 230v control circuit safe? Which checking the ip ratings of components and warning of the present voltage was what my reply was regarding, I wasn't talking about the rest of the machine obviously there is more to it
 
Dave is correct, the circuit is only safe it is designed correctly! 230v or not.

Machine safety needs to be take seriously.
 
A DOL starter has a 230v control circuit in it.

Surely you are checking the machine is fit for purpose and safe, so as long as the panel and components carry a suitable IP rating for the environment and the correct warning labels are in place I cant see the problem
A DOL starter doesn't necessarily have a 230v control
 
I was just referring to the stand alone wall mount type, just showing an example where 230v control is used
OK right must have misunderstood your statement, sorry
 
I was just referring to the stand alone wall mount type, just showing an example where 230v control is used

These aren't classed as a control system under EN60204 and thus don't need to meet there requirements as they are simple apparatus.

This is why you can still buy them with 400v control.
 
These aren't classed as a control system under EN60204 and thus don't need to meet there requirements as they are simple apparatus.

This is why you can still buy them with 400v control.

I thought they where?

EN60204
"Transformers are not mandatory for machines with a single motor starter and/or a maximum of two control devices (for example interlock device, start/stop control station)."

Although the coil voltage is 400v, the control circuit is 230v.

I think I'll be much clearer in my response next time as I seem to have been misunderstood
 
I thought they where?

EN60204
"Transformers are not mandatory for machines with a single motor starter and/or a maximum of two control devices (for example interlock device, start/stop control station)."

Although the coil voltage is 400v, the control circuit is 230v.

I think I'll be much clearer in my response next time as I seem to have been misunderstood
I'm not sure I understand, 400v coil 230v control circuit, how does that work or have I totally misunderstood what you are saying?
 
Seems to be a lot of confusion on this matter of 230v control circuits, so hopefully I can simplify it for you and put this thread to bed.
Under the BS60402-1 the requirements state that if machinery(control system) has more than 2 actuators ie.. E-stops, limit switches etc then the control voltage must be of an isolated nature, this basically means that whatever the voltage may be it must be done through an isolating TX, where the control has less than 2 actuators then direct mains voltage control is fine hence you can buy a DOL starter with 400v, 230v coils wired directly to the supply of the installation.

I think the intrinsically safe debate has been resolved earlier but that has nothing to do with the content of this discussion and would only really come into play in say an explosive environment or similar hazardous areas.

This is one of the main breaches of regulation found when using 230, 400 control systems in that someone will be asked to add a few more e-stops or a safety limit switch etc and they leave the exiting direct voltage circuit in place not realising their actions has changed the reqiurements of the circuit under the BS60402-1.

As for China - unless the company has world wide good reputation and a high regard for local regulations of the target market then trust no-one, they fake falsify and rip off people at an astoninshing level, any company importing and reselling such goods needs to employ a 3rd party to test, conform compliance and stamp any CE/EC marking themselves, just had a batch of pumps with all the paperwork supplied from china through a uk intermediate company that had a lable saying it must comply to the 18th edition BS7671 !!!!... sent them all back and all the company supplying them could say was they have the right paperwork although they now know where their responsiblities lie after a email chat with me....
 
Well the voltage is 230v at the start and stop button, overload etc so the bit that controls it is 230v just my opinion
What about the coil? @400v the 230v control isn't going to pull it in.
 
What about the coil? @400v the 230v control isn't going to pull it in.

It sure will if there is a different phase connected to the A2, the control circuit is the same wether it is a 230v or 400v coil the only change is the connection to the A2 of the coil
 
It sure will if there is a different phase connected to the A2, the control circuit is the same wether it is a 230v or 400v coil the only change is the connection to the A2 of the coil
So you are saying it's a 230v control circuit with a 400v coil? to me that's a 400v control circuit
It sure will if there is a different phase connected to the A2, the control circuit is the same whether it is a 230v or 400v coil the only change is the connection to the A2 of the coil
If the control circuit is connected across 2 phases then that control circuit will be deemed a 400v circuit, L1 at the start of the control ending up at A1 on the coil at A2 the other end of the coil is connected to either L2 or L3 the circuit will be 400v, if you have a coil rated at 230 v then A2 should be connected to N.
 

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