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400v circuit voltage but 230v control voltage, I'm sure you see my point and I see yours like I said before it's just my opinion
 
400v circuit voltage but 230v control voltage, I'm sure you see my point and I see yours like I said before it's just my opinion
In your case then what rating is the coil? what is the A2 of the coil connected to? Where are you measuring 230volts on your control circuit?
 
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I don't understand either Pete, it's one or the other unless you are pulling in the contractor via a 230 relay with 2 phases through it. Which obviously would be silly.

It's one or the other.

L1 at the start or the circuit, through the latch to the coil and N at the end 230V
L1 at the start of the circuit and L2 at the end 400V
 
I guess the stop and start buttons etc will only have 230v to them, these must energise a relay or suchlike which then connects the other phase for the 400v coil to pull in. With the relay situated in the panel. Thoughts?
 
I guess the stop and start buttons etc will only have 230v to them, these must energise a relay or suchlike which then connects the other phase for the 400v coil to pull in. With the relay situated in the panel. Thoughts?
This is getting stupid, L1 to start of control circuit ends up A1 on coil (400v rating) A2 to L2 or L3 400volt control circuit.
A1 to start of control circuit ends up A1 on coil A (230 V coil rating) A2 to N 230v control circuit and so on with differing voltages i,e, 12v 24v 50v 100v 150v etc its not rocket science fer Christs sake. Obviously the lower voltages will require a transformer of some sort. I take it you do realise you can swap the coils around to suite your needs, please say yes.
 
It sure will if there is a different phase connected to the A2, the control circuit is the same wether it is a 230v or 400v coil the only change is the connection to the A2 of the coil

It will be 240V to Earth, but it is not working to earth, it is working between phases and so it is 415V.
You don't install a machine which uses a 415V 2phase supply and call it a 240V supply.

If the cool is operating at 415V then the start contact will have 415V between its terminals when it is open, how on earth can that be 240V control?
 
Under the BS60402-1 the requirements state that if machinery(control system) has more than 2 actuators ie.. E-stops, limit switches etc then the control voltage must be of an isolated nature, this basically means that whatever the voltage may be it must be done through an isolating TX, where the control has less than 2 actuators then direct mains voltage control is fine hence you can buy a DOL starter with 400v, 230v coils wired directly to the supply of the installation.

What constitutes and actuator? Does this mean that a simple DOL starter with three buttons on it (start, stop, reverse or inch) would have 3 actuators?
 
The OP has had the technically correct answers on the IET forum, but, has up until this point in time ignored them.
What constitutes and actuator? Does this mean that a simple DOL starter with three buttons on it (start, stop, reverse or inch) would have 3 actuators?
No, if they are in one enclosure then they are one "device".
Don't forget once you go from simple systems into safety devices, emergency stops, guard switches, light curtains etc. then you are into full blown EN 13849 territory and that is required for compliance with the SMSR & PUWER, and anyone doing this work is encompassed into this legislation.
 
No, if they are in one enclosure then they are one "device".
Don't forget once you go from simple systems into safety devices, emergency stops, guard switches, light curtains etc. then you are into full blown EN 13849 territory and that is required for compliance with the SMSR & PUWER, and anyone doing this work is encompassed into this legislation.

Thanks, I'm only curious as to what point a simple system stops being simple.
 
Once you have a safety function, so basically anything more than an e-stop, and more than the device count as specified in EN 60204-1.

Personally I just turn down any work which involves motor/machinery controls, but I do wish that at some point during my time at college someone had actually told us that these regulations even exist and told us what the average electrician can and cannot do without further training.
 
Grab a copy of 60204 Dave, it's relatively an easy read compared to the BYB.
 
EN60204 is relitivly cheep, problem is going any deeper than the surface requires other standards like EN12100, E13849-1 & EN62061 being the main ones.

Looking at circa £550 for those 3 if you're not a BSI member.
 

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