Discuss Adding a light to a circuit with no earth in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

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robo83

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Got to quote a job where the existing circuit does not have an earth.

It's swapping a pendant for 3 Downlights.

The board was changed about 2 yrs ago and has labels indicating no CPC on lighting.

All Fascias are plastic. Where do I stand Regards this, I understand you can accept no CPC on lighting with Fascias but not sure about modifying the circuit.
 
How hard would it be to add a 4mm earth?
 
My thought is to look in CU and see if cct starts with cpc in earth bar, then look at the cable inco to pendant, it might just be cut back ? (optimistic me)
 
Can't see that you can. If you are adding new wiring, reg 411.3.1.1 'A cpc shall be run to & terminated at each point in wiring & at each accessory except a lamp holder having no exposed conductive parts.....'.

If it was the case of just replacing luminaires, Class 2 and note etc.
A cpc will be ran in by the op I would imagine if altering installing new wiring to luminaries.
Granted it may not do anything but a class 2 luminar will have no exposed conductive parts so the wiring will be no more dangerous than previous with a relivant note on a MWC
 
That's the issue, the way I read the OP's post?
Yeah no cpc to existing circuit db is labelled as such.
However if installing class 2 there is no exposed conductive parts so a fault to the enclosure cannot give a person an electric shock by touching it.
Wiring hopefully covered for overload and short circuit protection by a adequate protective device.
I don't see a problem with it as long as it's clearly identified at the db which it is.
Also note the MWC

Obviously class 1 luminaries are a no no unless a cpc is installed from the db perhaps
 
A cpc will be ran in by the op I would imagine if altering installing new wiring to luminaries.
Granted it may not do anything but a class 2 luminar will have no exposed conductive parts so the wiring will be no more dangerous than previous with a relivant note on a MWC

The definition of a cpc is a conductor that is connected to the MET.
So I would read 411.3.1.1 as each point requires a conductor that is connected to earth.
612.2.1 requires that continuity of protective conductors is carried out during testing.
132.16 requires that all existing equipment and arrangements are suitable for safe alteration before the work is carried out.

I would personally not extend a circuit with no cpc.
 
I don't think he is extending the circuit. Just swapping lights.

It's swapping a pendant for 3 Downlights.
 
Yeah no cpc to existing circuit db is labelled as such.
However if installing class 2 there is no exposed conductive parts so a fault to the enclosure cannot give a person an electric shock by touching it.
Wiring hopefully covered for overload and short circuit protection by a adequate protective device.
I don't see a problem with it as long as it's clearly identified at the db which it is.
Also note the MWC

Obviously class 1 luminaries are a no no unless a cpc is installed from the db perhaps

That's not the way I read the reg; new wiring, cpc to each terminated point.
 
1 Pendant to 3 downlights.. so +2 points extension to the circuit?

Balls....
I read it as 1 pendant to another fitting with 3 lights on... My fault....

I'm sure the OP will clarify all this... :tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy:
 
So let's say the circuit has a cpc
If class 2 lights are fitted what is the cpc actually doing?
Yes it's required to be terminated at each point and accessory but in the case of class 2 fittings it function is not required.
By that I don't mean you'd just snip the cpc off by the way.

Would you then not change a db if all lights are class 2 and the switches and no cpc to circuit?
Suitably labelled as required

The work covered ,the wiring is no more dangerous than the previous way it was.
 
The definition of a cpc is a conductor that is connected to the MET.
So I would read 411.3.1.1 as each point requires a conductor that is connected to earth.
612.2.1 requires that continuity of protective conductors is carried out during testing.
132.16 requires that all existing equipment and arrangements are suitable for safe alteration before the work is carried out.

I would personally not extend a circuit with no cpc.
A definition of a cpc also says connecting exposed conductive parts of equipment to the MET of which there would be no exposed parts of class 2 equipment.
Continuity of cpc would be N/A as there is no cpc to the circuit.
The wiring installed to the altered wiring would contain a cpc, granted it's doing nothing but again it's being installed in the altered works.
If someone in the future wants to fit metallic fittings then the db is labelled to advise against it.

Just my view on it.
I appreciate your view so not starting an argument Andy.
 

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