adding circuits/legal limits

[tricks343]

Hi, I recently began adding a circuit to a CCU for a friend, in his takeaway restaurant . Another electrician butted in and said that I must test the entire board first? And because I'm not part P registered that I must notify the local authority.

I'm fully Qualified to the 17th ed, I was under the impression that when adding circuits you must test the incoming supply (tails, main earth) making sure there up to regs. I've never worked with anyone who has tested the entire board to add a circuit assuming it can handle the additional load.

I'm not sure why he's askingabout part P as it's not a domestic premises

Basically my Question boils down to this....

What are the legal limits and precautions I must take being fully Qualified but not Part P sregistered?
For example can I test and inspect including signing off the work? I thought I could but now im doubting the rules.....again!

Any advice is appreciated, thanks

 

[Darkwood]

To add a circuit you need only ensure the Earthing and bonding arrangements are satisfactory even if not up to present regulations, you do not have to test the entire board only your new circuit and then issue a cert' covering your work, unless the customer requests for a full test and inspection then there is no requirement, I would be asking this jobsworth where it states all this, sounds like a bitter contractor who lost out the job to you.

Are you a member of any scheme provider or are you freelance?

 

[tricks343]

Thank you, that's that's what I told him. Its just people always seem to create grey areas in this industry then I doubt myself. Very frustrating.
Also it's my understanding that I'd only have to inform local authority when Moving/changing a CCU, unless part P registered, is that right?

I am freelance right now, trying to get work in but as Ive been doing this for two weeks (for my own business) I don't have the cash to sign up to a scheme yet. To be honest I'm dreading giving them my money just so they can say it's okay to work. The competence and experience I have is enough

So to clarify, I can do the work including signing it off, correct?

 

[derek]

Does the takeaway have a flat or accommodation which shares the meter?

 

[tricks343]

Thank you, as I expected. He's an old guy and did seem pretty bitter.

i am not a member of a scheme and am trying to earn money to get registered. Only went out alone a couple weeks ago.
The problem with getting registered is if I'm right that you must have practical evidence of your competence in a domestic household but to work on domestic I have to be registered? How am I ment to become registered without breaking the lawinitially by doing the work before registration? Maybe this is for another thread

 

[tricks343]

Thank you Derek but I have taken that in to consideration. It is a commercial property only. Thanks though

 

[telectrix]

as both last 2 posts ^^^^^. if no domestic dwelling sharing same meter, then part p has got nothing to do with it.

 

[Midwest]

Would the other electrician be referring to the test certificate to be issued, i.e. EIC for new circuit, Ze etc tests, earthing & bonding? And then referring to reg. 633.2, commenting on 'any defects found, so far as reasonably practicable'.

 

[tricks343]

Well I can safely say he wasn't referring to any regs and probably doesn't know that himself. I told him that the earthing system would be checked to clarify I'm allowed to add the circuit. I then told him a certificate would be issued involving results on only what I had installed. He said I dont need to record the other circuits but I have to test then to make sure they are safe to. I disagreed with him. Seems like he's just trying to get free testing out of me.

And of course on that test sheet would be any comments on any noticeable advisories I had discovered while working on that electrical system.

 

[telectrix]

personally, i'd do a fairly quick visual inspection of the whole installation, and maybe Zs tests on each existing circuit.

 

[tricks343]

personally, i'd do a fairly quick visual inspection of the whole installation, and maybe Zs tests on each existing circuit.

Of course, I'm a bit over paranoid (which is probably a good thing in this industry) I visually check everything I'm involved in. If I can easily spot something that's dangerous I wouldn't feel right ignoring it.

As for the Zs I can see why you'd want to do that, I would like to do all the testing to be honest but that not what I'm being paid to do and there's about 14 circuits. I would happily do certain things for free but that's quite a bit of time and time is money. Which they don't want to spend much of.

I'm not doing anything wrong by not testing the other circuits, am I?

 

[telectrix]

no . you're only responsible for what you install, bearing in mind that the installation must be in a good enough condition to re-energise.

 

[shanky887614]

no . you're only responsible for what you install, bearing in mind that the installation must be in a good enough condition to re-energise.

simple way around that, pull bullit, fit henly block and use small board and that will cover your arse if there tight gits.

seen it before, since you fitted that circuit, ***** etc is not working so im not paying/full amount.

some clients are the scum of the earth, saying that some tradesman (inc some elctricians) and others are just as bad

 

[telectrix]

i'd only do that if there were no spare ways and/or no RCD to cover the new work.

 

[davesparks]

simple way around that, pull bullit, fit henly block and use small board and that will cover your arse if there tight gits.

seen it before, since you fitted that circuit, ***** etc is not working so im not paying/full amount.

some clients are the scum of the earth, saying that some tradesman (inc some elctricians) and others are just as bad

That doesn't get around any responsibility for what you install, it just adds responsibility for the alteration to the tails.

 

[shanky887614]

That doesn't get around any responsibility for what you install, it just adds responsibility for the alteration to the tails.

if the board doesnt have an rcd what would you do then? on an old board with obsolete breakers and a home owner reluctant to change it

 

[davesparks]

if the board doesnt have an rcd what would you do then? on an old board with obsolete breakers and a home owner reluctant to change it

That is entirely irrelevant to the point, you suggested adding the second board as a way to dodge out of responsibilities, I pointed out that it added responsibility for the tails rather than removing any.

But in answer to your question, it would depend entirely on whether RCD protection is required or not. Seeing as this thread is discussing a commercial installation there is a good chance RCD protection is not required, and there is definately not a homeowner to contend with.
If a circuit breaker or fuse carrier is required which is obsolete then I would get one from a local wholesaler who has a large stock of such items.

 

[tricks343]

That is entirely irrelevant to the point, you suggested adding the second board as a way to dodge out of responsibilities, I pointed out that it added responsibility for the tails rather than removing any.

But in answer to your question, it would depend entirely on whether RCD protection is required or not. Seeing as this thread is discussing a commercial installation there is a good chance RCD protection is not required, and there is definately not a homeowner to contend with.
If a circuit breaker or fuse carrier is required which is obsolete then I would get one from a local wholesaler who has a large stock of such items.

I'm installing a 2.5 radial on a 20amp MCB. it's on an old 3phase bboard, it's not RCD protected. The circuit is for two 2kw hot storage units. Each will be protected by a 13amp switch fused spur. I was considering putting it on an RCBO

 

[davesparks]

I'm installing a 2.5 radial on a 20amp MCB. it's on an old 3phase bboard, it's not RCD protected. The circuit is for two 2kw hot storage units. Each will be protected by a 13amp switch fused spur. I was considering putting it on an RCBO

What do you need the RCD protection for?

 

[Midwest]

Well I can safely say he wasn't referring to any regs and probably doesn't know that himself. Seems like he's just trying to get free testing out of me.

Sorry, I thought you said you were doing the work for a friend in his takeaway, when another electrician 'butted in'?