Advice please depth of buried cable

[PC Electrics]

Also how extensively damaged was the cable?

 

[CourtneyDesigns]

The cable was live when we hit it, we only damaged the plastic coating. We asked for the cable to be checked and that everything was still working and it for it to be isolated. Everything worked fine and they taped the plastic coating . We were not given any advice on cable pressence. We assumed (wrongly) that cable depths would be suffcient ,allowing safe installation of said fence..This happened in November it wasnt until we had been chasing payment for some time that they mentioned a problem with the lighting bollard and that it was going to cost us £400.

 

[madmac]

The problem is this.......Did the company employ you or are you a sub-contractor because this is the route they will take if you mention Health & Safety to them. If you were responsible for the excavation works by your employees then you would be responsible for interpreting the drawings, using CAT scanning equipment and having a nominated stand by man to oversee the works also a full risk assessment and method statement and perhaps an extra excavation permit issued! Otherwise they should have provided all this as your direct employer and provided a "duty of care" to you and your fellow workers.

 

[Engineer54]

The argument of cable depth and warning notices over them is in your favour.

A man digging even if being carefully would have a hard time spotting SWA without any pre warning I.e electrical warning tape!

Agree.....

You probably hit that cable with the first trust of the fork or shovel. As has been clearly stated here now, 4'' meets NO cable burial depth recommendation. Therefore the cable does not conform as being properly installed full stop!!!
The cables are at an ''unsafe'' depth, and will be prone to ongoing damage, they can also be considered as a safety hazard...

 

[Des 56]

The cable seems to have been an accident waiting to happen

You were given no plans of routing of underground services
You were not warned of the danger
The cable ought to have been at least 2 spades depth
There was no marking tape
The accident was surely very possible and in my opinion not of your making
Are vehicles etc in use over these cables?

 

[Apollo]

So your getting charged £400 for a bit of tape????

They don't stand a chance really unless there is something your omitting to tell us.

Depth of cable and the fact it had no warning tape are your saving grace, throw that at them and see what they come back with!!!!

 

[PC Electrics]

Assuming we're talking about armour cable here and all you did was nick the outer sheath, then a repair with several layers of self amalgamating tape would have been quite sufficient (though I'd probably have put a layer of waterproof duck tape onto the repair first to ensure a sound seal). Maximum cost of repair £50.

I dare say that if this client were playing fair and only deducting £50 or so, then you'd probably have taken it on the chin.

ATEOTD you're going to have to decide how good a client these people are. If not, then argue the ---- with them. If they are and you want to keep their business, make them a reasonable offer, but next time go to town on the paperwork as Madmac says above (and make sure it's included in the price).

 

[CourtneyDesigns]

Apollo
When we hit the cable we notified the site manager whom had it checked and taped, some 3 months later they are saying that 'maybe' damp got into it so it had to be replaced. Im not omitting any thing. A breakdown of their cost- excavate and locate cable £60.00 ,electrician time to locate problem £54.00,5m of 10mm cable £15.00,repair damaged cable £180,reinstating block paving and reinstating cable £65.00 plus VAT. My view is they are trying it on

 

[Guest 004]

'taped' seems to be a key word here
Just throw some regs at him
433.1.4
522.8.10
523.3
708.521.1.1
'Underground cables shall be buried at a depth of at least 0.6 m'

 

[Engineer54]

Apollo
When we hit the cable we notified the site manager whom had it checked and taped, some 3 months later they are saying that 'maybe' damp got into it so it had to be replaced. Im not omitting any thing. A breakdown of their cost- excavate and locate cable £60.00 ,electrician time to locate problem £54.00,5m of 10mm cable £15.00,repair damaged cable £180,reinstating block paving and reinstating cable £65.00 plus VAT. My view is they are trying it on

They are indeed!! Tell them to go after the electrical company that installed these cables in the first place!! They can also take a fair wedge of the blame too, as their on site manager must have observed these cables being laid at the time of installation too!!!

 

[PC Electrics]

Apollo
My view is they are trying it on

I'd agree.
A repair such as I described would provide a watertight seal.

At worst they could have cut the cable cleanly and placed a joint on it. These joints have a plastic case, you crimp the cables together, place the plastic case around the joint and fill with a resin compound that hardens (sort of similar to car body filler). The joint would probably outlast the cable. No need for digging up of block paving.

Edit:
In fact you could probably just place the casing around the uncut cable and fill with resin. No joints and it'd be bomb proof!

 

[Engineer54]

CourtneyDesign,

Your workmen, during the course of erecting the fence you were contracted for, were tramping all over this so-called buried cable. Your men have probably done more damage to these cable sheaths than the cable you actually hit. It is more than plain to see, whoever excavated this shallow trench, just back filled over the cable with the the excavated soil, sharp stones and all!!! All cable trenches have a sequence of procedure for back filling, absolutly ''NONE'' of them have been carried out in accordance with that procedure.

The crap they have quoted you for, still leaves these lighting cable runs in a non-compliant state, that's if they ever did this so-called repair....

 

[CourtneyDesigns]

Heres the situation.
There is an oustanding invoice for £1350 which we have been chasing since 31 Jan.
They came back to us in 8th march saying repairs to cable are £400+vat.
Weve said look we are not happy with this but we will split it 50/50 but until we agree would they please send the balance approx£900. edit we have not received this either.
Not been able to get a response from emails or letters since.

 

[Apollo]

Just had to check, and i'm with everyone on here. This company is really trying it on with you. Infact their taking the yellow liquid stuff in bucket loads.

After just a few months how do they know it "maybe" has damp in the cable? Surely the person who bodged, sorry I mean fixed the cable should be liable for the costs. As you say you were up front and alerted them to the damaged cable, it was fixed at the time so therefore the liability lies with someone else. Find out their reasoning for thinking the point of the damp in the cable, I'd go and check the area you'll be able to tell if the pavements been lifted or not... I'd throw the regs at them as eveyone has said.

I'd be tempted to fetch my fence back!!!!

 

[Guest 004]

county court it is then

 

[CourtneyDesigns]

Thanks everyone for your comments , i think i have been resonable with these guys unfortunately it hasnt been reciprocated.i think i will now proceed with 'small claims court ' nowing how the courts work they will probaly say split the cost 50/50 which is what i have offered and it will cost £200 for the priviledge.

Edit ; i will also have to drive 100miles to St Albans

 

[cagedanimal2010]

agree with apollo, surly its the person who fixed it who is liable, not you! you informed them you had hit the cable, if we want to be pedantic you should pay for the repair £50max, and thats were it ends they are extracting the urine!!!
hope you get things sorted!!!!

Danny

 

[Electricalserv]

I have a funny feeling with whats been said here that he is unlikely to recieve a payment at all....

Just my intuition on this one

 

[SW1970]

Thanks everyone for your comments , i think i have been resonable with these guys unfortunately it hasnt been reciprocated.i think i will now proceed with 'small claims court ' nowing how the courts work they will probaly say split the cost 50/50 which is what i have offered and it will cost £200 for the priviledge.

Edit ; i will also have to drive 100miles to St Albans

CourtneyDesigns, any chance of some follow up about the outcome?

 

[mogga]

Just to explain a little further
We were installing a fence for our client on a barn conversion. We hit a swa cable ( for lighting bollard) that was buried approx 4 inches.They new where the fence was to be situated. They are now trying deduct £400 off the oustanding balance.
Thanks

Sorry to say something you wont want to hear YOU are responsable as YOU should have assertained exactly where the cable was wouldnt matter what depth it was at if your putting a fence in surley you would check area with a CAT( cable avoidance tool) then hand dig where cable was indicated