applying diversity

[leep82]

Currently on a job refurbishing a bungalow. The customer has completely changed the layout of the property taking walls out and putting new partition ones up. They have created an en suite in the master bedroom and require a power shower in here as well as the existing bathroom. Im working with an 80a supply and despite several attempts to get further info from the customer it hasnt been forthcoming. I have concerns about the loading of the potential two showers and any oven/hob ( again which i have no information on ). Just thought id see what peoples thoughts are on this situation particularly with regards to diversity and how to apply it.

Before i get shot down i always find it more helpful learning from other people than reading from a book. I see to many people when im reading through other posts leaving sarcastic responses to people asking genuine questions ( bet youre a joy to work with ). Better to ask a question than assume you know an answer/solution inly to be made to look foolish later?

 

[Andy78]

What are the power requirements of the power showers ? they generally don't pull a lot.

 

[leep82]

Unfortunately this is the info i can not get from the customer. Im thinking i may be best on insisting they go for smaller rated appliances to be safe. I dont want them to go and buy say two 10kw rated showers as the chances both showers getting at the same time are quite high as they have a guest room for relatives who stay over regularly.

 

[AndyL]

More info required from the client, you have to be a bit more insistent on this. Tell your client that without the complete information there is no way to design the installation correctly

 

[Spoon]

More info required from the client, you have to be a bit more insistent on this. Tell your client that without the complete information there is no way to design the installation correctly

or tell them that without the info you will put 32A breakers in for the showers & cooker and they will have to purchase the equipment to suit the breaker sizes.

 

[davesparks]

Just to clarify things, is it power showers or electric showers?
A power shower being a pumped unit which has hot and cold feeds and an electric shower being an electrically heated unit which has only a cold feed?

 

[leep82]

Believe me ive tried, i wired a new kitchen ring last weekend without a kitchen layout just went of the customers instructions and im just waiting to go back and have to move sockets that are in the wrong position, customers aware of this and are willing to pay for anything that needs moving, they are just so laid back its untrue

 

[Andy78]

Unfortunately this is the info i can not get from the customer. Im thinking i may be best on insisting they go for smaller rated appliances to be safe. I dont want them to go and buy say two 10kw rated showers as the chances both showers getting at the same time are quite high as they have a guest room for relatives who stay over regularly.

Well you stated power shower. These can be as little as 3A, now you are on about a 10kW electrically heated shower. Massive difference.
You can't do any cable calcs or diversity calcs until you have the info from the customer, tell them so.

 

[leep82]

Sorry for confusion i actually meant electric showers and not a heated unit with pump

 

[AndyL]

Yeah we have all had clients like that, but you need to cover yourself and just be a bit more professional. Don't install without a plan or at least confirmation of positioning. Sometimes you get lucky and they pay for alterations but it can easily turn into hassle and you don't get paid at all. There is another thread going on at the moment with that exact problem (from the clients POV)

 

[leep82]

Yeah this is the route i think i may have to go down, already put a seperate supply in for the cooker because of lack of info, was hoping i could just use the kitchen ring to supply it. Now ive lost a spare way in the CU but hopefully covered myself by installing a 4mm2 radial

 

[davesparks]

Yeah this is the route i think i may have to go down, already put a seperate supply in for the cooker because of lack of info, was hoping i could just use the kitchen ring to supply it. Now ive lost a spare way in the CU but hopefully covered myself by installing a 4mm2 radial

4mm for a cooker supply? That's pushing your luck isn't it?

I'd be very concerned about a design which supplies an electric cooking appliance via a ring final cct.

 

[davesparks]

Believe me ive tried, i wired a new kitchen ring last weekend without a kitchen layout just went of the customers instructions and im just waiting to go back and have to move sockets that are in the wrong position, customers aware of this and are willing to pay for anything that needs moving, they are just so laid back its untrue

Walk away from throb and leave some other mug to suffer this crap

 

[HandySparks]

4mm for a cooker supply? That's pushing your luck isn't it?

I'd be very concerned about a design which supplies an electric cooking appliance via a ring final cct.

Hmm. Maybe the OP actually means an oven, not a cooker. A small single oven might well be rated at less than 13A.

 

[mattg4321]

If you're doing that much work to a place, why the hell would you fit electric showers.

 

[leep82]

Sorry for the confusion once again, i of course meant oven when i was referring to supplying ot fro the kitchen ring main. This isnt a job i can walk away from now and although the customer can be hard work so far i have had no problems with payment

 

[davesparks]

Sorry for the confusion once again, i of course meant oven when i was referring to supplying ot fro the kitchen ring main. This isnt a job i can walk away from now and although the customer can be hard work so far i have had no problems with payment

Still not advisable to supply it from a ring circuit is it.

 

[Sparkie30]

I dont want them to go and buy say two 10kw rated showers as the chances both showers getting at the same time are quite high as they have a guest room for relatives who stay over regularly.

Well i think you worrying way to much pal, water pressure isnt powerful enough to run 2 showers at the same time unless some serious pumps are installed.

 

[davesparks]

Well i think you worrying way to much pal, water pressure isnt powerful enough to run 2 showers at the same time unless some serious pumps are installed.

Have you been to the property and tested the water pressure then?

 

[Andy78]

Convince them they want more reliable, more economical, mixer showers. Hassle from lack of info gets directed at the plumber, job done, down the pub.