ELECSA Certification Scheme Certification without registering with NIC, ELECSA etc

[n180]

Hi guys,

I'm a little confused as to how to go about providing certification for domestic.

I always though you HAD to be registered with one of these 3rd party bodies like the NIC. But i've recently learned that you don't neccessarily have to be? Is that really true?

Question 1:
So if I have a level 3 2365 and I have the 17th edition and the 2394, can I issue certs for installation of new circuits or complete rewires, without registering with them bodies? If so how does it work, who do I contact and how much does it cost?

Question 2:
To register with the NIC, one of the requirements is that they want to see previous certs I've completed. I'm guessing these are the certs that I've done myself without registering with anybody i.e the ones that I would do in answer to my question 1 above?

Question 3:
What extra qualifications would I need to be able to certify for commercial and industrial also, is it just the 2395? Or would I absolutley have to complete the NVQ level 3 (don't get me wrong, i'm planning on completing the NVQ level 3 anyway, just wondering if I can start issuing certs for installs after the 2395 or not)

 

[rolyberkin]

Firstly yes you can issue a certificate, don't get issuing a certificate confused with notifying building control to comply with part P, they are different things.

in short it is easier for you to register with a scheme if you are doing a lot of notifiable work but you have two choices to notify work to the local authority

1. Pay a fee per installation normally about £265
2. If there is a building control notice in force (ie for a new build or notifiable building work) you can piggy back onto and notify under this, you would probably have to provide copies of your qualifications with certification.

Have you considered Stroma? a lot cheaper than the NICEIC and to my mind a good scheme.

You need no more to do commercial, probably just ensure you have adequate Pli.

 

[Richard Burns]

Multiple issues to address here.

Initially there are two separate sets of regulations: the wiring regulations and the building regulations.

The wiring regulations prescribe the provision of electrical installation certificates for all electrical installation work (that is not maintenance). These are to be provided by the designer, installer, inspector (may be the same person) all of whom must be competent (skilled person (electrically)), or someone supervised/instructed by a skilled person to complete these certificates.

The building regulations require the work to be of good standard and generally complying with the wiring regulations and, under Part P of the building regulations, for certain aspects of domestic installation require that the work is notified to building control as said by Rolyberkin above.

Then you are on to accepted practice and conditions stipulated by employing operations.
Here in industrial and commercial work they may require you to be registered with a specific body to allow you to work on their installations, often NICEIC registration is the one specified, usually they would mean approved contractor status in this instance but they possibly do not understand themselves what they are requesting. This can be slightly different to registration for Part P purposes only.
Often there is a requirement for you to be ECS registered as well (similar to CSCS, but for electricians) and this registration would require training to include the NVQ3.

Registration with a self certification body would require you to provide electrical installation certificates for work you have done.

 

[Octopus]

I always though you HAD to be registered with one of these 3rd party bodies like the NIC. But i've recently learned that you don't neccessarily have to be? Is that really true?

Question 1:
So if I have a level 3 2365 and I have the 17th edition and the 2394, can I issue certs for installation of new circuits or complete rewires, without registering with them bodies? If so how does it work, who do I contact and how much does it cost?

Some BCO's may accept you qualifications as competence - but that is up to them...

Question 2:
To register with the NIC, one of the requirements is that they want to see previous certs I've completed. I'm guessing these are the certs that I've done myself without registering with anybody i.e the ones that I would do in answer to my question 1 above?

Not all jobs are notifiable

Question 3:
What extra qualifications would I need to be able to certify for commercial and industrial also, is it just the 2395? Or would I absolutley have to complete the NVQ level 3 (don't get me wrong, i'm planning on completing the NVQ level 3 anyway, just wondering if I can start issuing certs for installs after the 2395 or not)

There are no requirement for scheme membership BUT companies will often request membership as a guide to competence.

See comments above

Your best bet would be to join Stroma @ £288.00 per year. Then you can log on a computer at home and register the notifiable work. Obviously you will need to provide the certificate(s) to the home owner.


Hope this helps

 

[n180]

Thanks guys. It's all beginning to make more sense now.

So to clarify:

If I have passed the 2394, 17th and level 3 2365, I can simply print off and issue all 3 initial verification forms for any new installations or new circuits I do, in either domestic or commercial/industrial without any need to sign up with or tell anyone else. However for the notifiable work, I will either have to pay £265 every time or I can sign up with stroma and just do it through them.

Did I understand that correctly?

The other thing i'm now confused on is that these CPS schemes like Stroma ask for previous certs I've done. Well it seems to me all works requiring the initial verification forms are all notifiable, so do I have to pay the £265 to building regs the first time I do a cert just so I have a "previous" cert to show stroma? I really can't think of any work that is not notifiable that requires the certs. All non notifiable work seems to only need minor works cert.

Thanks once again.

 

[Midwest]

The other thing i'm now confused on is that these CPS schemes like Stroma ask for previous certs I've done. Well it seems to me all works requiring the initial verification forms are all notifiable, so do I have to pay the £265 to building regs the first time I do a cert just so I have a "previous" cert to show stroma? I really can't think of any work that is not notifiable that requires the certs. All non notifiable work seems to only need minor works cert.

Thanks once again.

Its the chicken and the egg thing. Basically have a notifiable job in the bag, book your assessment, pass your assessment, then 'Notify' the LBC via your new buddies in your chosen scheme. Have all the other certs to show them. It's not what the system should be like, but that's life.

 

[Octopus]

They will accept work done in your own place - so could you replace your CU - the schemes aren't really interested in whether the job has been notified in my experience and you do have 30 days to notify.... so do the job, book the assessment, sign and date the cert a couple of days before your assessment and register it once you've passed

 

[Danny Gray]

so this seem similar to my current predicament ATM. recently went self employed after being laid off. not yet registered with anyone but looking into it mean while been asked for registration details by building control for a cert i issued!!

not sure how to get round it ATM other then tail between my legs and try and explain to building control!
any suggestions?

 

[Octopus]

so this seem similar to my current predicament ATM. recently went self employed after being laid off. not yet registered with anyone but looking into it mean while been asked for registration details by building control for a cert i issued!!

not sure how to get round it ATM other then tail between my legs and try and explain to building control!
any suggestions?

Join Stroma PDQ?

 

[sparksburnout]

so this seem similar to my current predicament ATM. recently went self employed after being laid off. not yet registered with anyone but looking into it mean while been asked for registration details by building control for a cert i issued!!

not sure how to get round it ATM other then tail between my legs and try and explain to building control!
any suggestions?

I wouldn't worry too much, although it is a bit like walking through treacle. From your profile it would seem you have the required qualifications, so assuming this is the case, you are probably 75% of the way there. If you have done a notifiable job that has come to the attention of building control, could you use that as your required assessment job? In my experience building control are usually pretty good, they might even accept your quals as evidence you are competent, certainly in the interim period until you are registered. Best thing to do is just be honest and tell them you were unsure of the procedures and have now applied to a scheme. Just register with Stroma and like Murdoch says, you can change your own CU as the job. Don't worry about it not being notified, they won't care, they are aware of the catch 22 situation. Just make sure you got all the documents and other stuff in the checklist that Stroma will give you. The mist will clear. Maybe Dave OCD has a feel for what the BCO's are like down there?

 

[Danny Gray]

I wouldn't worry too much, although it is a bit like walking through treacle. From your profile it would seem you have the required qualifications, so assuming this is the case, you are probably 75% of the way there. If you have done a notifiable job that has come to the attention of building control, could you use that as your required assessment job? In my experience building control are usually pretty good, they might even accept your quals as evidence you are competent, certainly in the interim period until you are registered. Best thing to do is just be honest and tell them you were unsure of the procedures and have now applied to a scheme. Just register with Stroma and like Murdoch says, you can change your own CU as the job. Don't worry about it not being notified, they won't care, they are aware of the catch 22 situation. Just make sure you got all the documents and other stuff in the checklist that Stroma will give you. The mist will clear. Maybe Dave OCD has a feel for what the BCO's are like down there?

 

[Danny Gray]

the annoying thing is i have all the documents here ready. Insurance, qualifications, etc just havent had the funds or time to follow it up. i wasnt aware of stroma until today. are they a recognized cps down here?

 

[sparksburnout]

W

the annoying thing is i have all the documents here ready. Insurance, qualifications, etc just havent had the funds or time to follow it up. i wasnt aware of stroma until today. are they a recognized cps down here?

Yes they are National. My last assessor told me he got sent down there, I was surprised you got leccy to be honest. I reckon you just got to get your wallet out, preferably first thing in the morning. You could always go on a flyer on tell building control your registration is in hand, but like I said I'd just be up front with them.

 

[rolyberkin]

Stroma won't accept a CU change as a piece of work for your assessment they will only expect two new circuits, the job you have done for building control sounds fine for them to look at, is it part of a bigger job i.e an extension or a build where there is a building control notice in force? As @sparksburntout has said I would be up front with building control and tell them you are in the process of applying and this job will be inspected as part of the process. Then get the paperwork into Stroma asap. Stroma can be really quick so get on the phone asap.

 

[DPG]

Stroma won't accept a CU change as a piece of work for your assessment they will only expect two new circuits, the job you have done for building control sounds fine for them to look at, is it part of a bigger job i.e an extension or a build where there is a building control notice in force? As @sparksburntout has said I would be up front with building control and tell them you are in the process of applying and this job will be inspected as part of the process. Then get the paperwork into Stroma asap. Stroma can be really quick so get on the phone asap.

Do you mean they won't accept it, or that they don't expect or require it? Daz

 

[rolyberkin]

They were quite specific when I did mine recently that they wanted to see a job with two new circuits and wouldn't accept a CU change for assessment, I had changed the board at my house and we still had to go out to look at another job.

 

[DPG]

Ah right. Interesting. Cheers. Daz

 

[sparksburnout]

I think they would accept a CU change? Why would they not?? I have always found them pretty flexible anyway, I am sure if that was all you had they would look at it. I have always got the impression that it is the paperwork side of things they are really bothered about and a CU change would be ideal I would have thought. Have you rang them yet?!!

 

[sparksburnout]

They were quite specific when I did mine recently that they wanted to see a job with two new circuits and wouldn't accept a CU change for assessment, I had changed the board at my house and we still had to go out to look at another job.

Ooeer was this your initial assessment or a periodic one?

 

[sparksburnout]

They were quite specific when I did mine recently that they wanted to see a job with two new circuits and wouldn't accept a CU change for assessment, I had changed the board at my house and we still had to go out to look at another job.

Ooeer was this your initial assessment or a periodic one?