Change in the Law regarding RCDs in Rental Properties

[Spazz]

I have been in contact with my local AM about the need for a legal requirement for all rental properties to contain RCDs to protect against electric shock, she fully agrees with myself that this is a requirement which needs to be brought inline with the requirements that are imposed with Gas Safety.

I have the backing of the Electrical Safety Council with this, and now looking for the backing of all the members on here as well.

Please visit https://www.------------/pages/Electrical-Safety/434757336534379 and like this page.

This is now being put in front of the Welsh Housing Minister to get this imposed in Wales, then we will be looking at UK wide.

Your backing would be greatly appreciated with this


Admins please sticky this

 

[GLENNSPARK]

so does your witchhunt mean that all rented houses still using C/Us with fuses to BS3036 will need to either have these consumer units removed or an upfront RCD fitted....even if supplementary bonding is in place and passes a visual and test?....so i guess we`l just (2) it all across the board now shall we?..lol...

 

[Spazz]

In 2007 there were 267 deaths from faulty electrical supplies and equipment - an RCD would have reduced this!

I have the backing of the ESC, local MP and AM on this.

I fully know understand that systems which use no earth would not need an RCD, but most properties these days are either TT, TNC or TNC-S all which would benefit from a RCD for additional protection.

The other side of this as well which the ESC are fighting for is annual safety checks (EICRs) on rental properties.

 

[Spazz]

Also the situation as well which has been mentioned on here a few times about plumbers removing supplementary Bonding also tenants removing them because they don't have a clue what they are!

We are not looking at using the RCD just to trip in the event of someone being electrocuted, but mainly fault protection. How many of you have been to a property with no RCD and when you plug everything back in the RCD trips due to an earth leakage fault which could not be picked up without using an RCD because the earth and Neutral are fused together - hence not tripping the fuses.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

i aint saying that additional protection by means of RCD isn`t beneficial...far from it.....my argument is ..is that a perfectly servicable installation.....one that could be considered good for continued service may/would have various of its components condemned...just for the lack of RCD........look, when most landlords open their mouths..the first thing out of it is `how much`....if they dont like the price..they just wont do it..simple as....a rented is supposed to have a PIR undertaken on it at every change of tennant....and/or every five years in any case.....it just dont happen....the amount of times my boss n I go into these places....theres no IEC, no previous schedules nowt....it just wont happen....and whoos going to enforce it?...the turnips that are supposed to be enforcing the state of affairs as it is now....dont make me laugh...

 

[Spazz]

my argument is ..is that a perfectly servicable installation

How many landlords actually do this?

the first thing out of it is `how much`

Fully agree - this is what making it law will force them to do it

a rented is supposed to have a PIR undertaken on it at every change of tennant

This is recommended not law - This is what ESC are trying to do, and what will come part of the RCD becoming law as well

and/or every five years

10 years for a rented property - they are still domestic (as far as NAPIT are concerned) - 5 years for commercial

and whoos going to enforce it?

Insurance companies will require it or they wont cover them - same with agents
We have backing from agents and insurance companies saying if it is law they can request these as a minimum - no insurance no rental
Yes we will still get rental properties with no insurance but these are far between


All we are looking for is to save people's lives nothing more!
If we save 1 life then is it not worth it?

 

[Spazz]

Also the bigger problem is like I keep seeing on here is who enforces it?
The next best thing after a legal requirement making EICRs mandatory in renal properties

is to have a system where if one of us issue a DNO (for example no earth bonding) then we also required not just to issue the occupier with a copy of i but to issue a copy to the LABC, for them to inspect the property!
If the property owner does the work then have a system saying that they are doing the work - no requirement for an inspection.

We need to get rid of these cowboys who are doing notifiable work without notifying it!

There are several parts being disused part of this, but limits to what can be made public until things can be put forward.

Im open to suggestions from everyone on here to what also need to be made legal


this RCD has created an open door and this is where to put other ideas forward to what else needs to be put in as part of it!

 

[Des 56]

Interesting Nicholas that you had a positive response from an assembly member I doubt though whether that same response will be forthcoming from the Welsh government

I know its a little off track from your enquiry,but as you may know,the responsibility for part p in Wales now lies with Cardiff bay
I wrote a comprehensive letter to the minister John Griffiths

In a nutshell he said nothing will change,if things change in England,he will then have a look,if any change is then on the cards,they will then review part p

This approach will mean in practice that Wales will have the dreaded nonsense for many years to come,perhaps even years after England has waved it Goodbye

The response to part p may be an indication of the non priority that is given to electrical installation by the Welsh government
It should leave you in no doubt that fine words will make not the slightest bit of difference, whether you think Rcds should be mandatory or not,its a dead duck before its started


Here is the reply

The Welsh Government is currently undertaking a review of Part L (Conservation of Fuel and Power) of the Building Regulations and will be going out to consultation later in the spring. It is not our intention to carry out a review of any other areas of the Building Regulations until the Part L review is complete and the new Part L approved documents are redrafted.

We are aware that an English review of Part P is currently underway and through our regular engagement with the Communities and Local Government (CLG) in England (and the other administrations) we will monitor developments. CLG are also in the process of introducing additional “Authorisation Criteria” requirements for new and existing members of Competent Persons Schemes including the requirement of being UKAS accredited. This will require independent appraisal of each member within the schemes.

The Welsh Government will review the outcomes of the English consultation in relation to Part P and will consider this and any other future changes in Wales on the basis of evidence, with public safety being a key factor.

Any further changes to the regulations in relation to electrical safety would be subject to public consultation, therefore I would encourage you return your comments for consideration.

 

[Des 56]

Hmm.
I have no more to add,except, at least I get the thread back in the list

 

[Spazz]

Des - can I ask what did you ask them to do?
A review of Part P?

 

[Spazz]

The Welsh Government will review the outcomes of the English consultation in relation to Part P and will consider this and any other future changes in Wales on the basis of evidence, with public safety being a key factor.

This is what we are going down - I am in the process of getting up todate stats for how many where killed in 2010 due to faulty electrical supplies.

Interesting only 86 people died from CO poisoning in 2010 and the government issued that Gas safety certificates every year is mandatory!

Im sure we can persuade them 3 times more deaths per year as a result of faulty electrical supplies.

Also on the point of who will police it - who polices the Gas Safety Certificate?
The insurance company and Agents
So who will be left to police the Electrical Safety?
The insurance company and Agents

 

[Des 56]

Des - can I ask what did you ask them to do?
A review of Part P?

A review,no no no,I asked the only question that is worthy of being presented

I asked them to get rid of the failed nonsense Part p and leave installation open to anybody who believes they can install
Mainly because Part P was and is completely unenforceable, it is a waste of time and effort to all involved

I asked them to concentrate their efforts on Test and inspection,to be carried out by a registered Competent and experienced person only

 

[Spazz]

That makes sense what you said - they seem to have everything the wrong way around at the moment!

certified to install

Anyone to inspect and test


but it seems like that in other countries as well - it all needs to be done by competent registered persons, and everything should be sent to LABC so they can police it!

 

[Spazz]

But thinking about what you said Des - anyone can install under Part P - they just have to get LABC to sign it off!

But what does not make sense is that you have to be registered to inspect and test a new installation but not for an existing one!

 

[thekingiam]

until the goverment does a campain and pay for it on the tv the public are not any the wiser,if you mention part p to joe blogs on the street he is not going to know what your on about and probably does his own electrics himself from stuff he bought in b&q.the only time an electrician is called out is when something has gone wrong.a rcd is supposed to be the last point of protection. i do like theidea howether unless we battle all the failures then we may findmore of the public believing they can do work themselves and if the rcd don't trip then it is ok.

 

[Spazz]

I have also sent 20 emails to famous people asking for their support - firstly to get more public on board with the idea
secondly to spread the word - using their money.

Most people know they are meant get it signed off, but the problem is how many sparkys are signing joe public's work - this is what needs to be taken control of!

 

[paul_griff]

I have been in contact with my local AM about the need for a legal requirement for all rental properties to contain RCDs to protect against electric shock, she fully agrees with myself that this is a requirement which needs to be brought inline with the requirements that are imposed with Gas Safety.

I have the backing of the Electrical Safety Council with this, and now looking for the backing of all the members on here as well.

Please visit https://www.------------/pages/Electrical-Safety/434757336534379 and like this page.

This is now being put in front of the Welsh Housing Minister to get this imposed in Wales, then we will be looking at UK wide.

Your backing would be greatly appreciated with this


Admins please sticky this

RCD's are only a good thing, but this could only be applied at change of tenant

 

[Guitarist]

Sorry if I am missing something here. Are you saying that it should become law for all rental properties to have RCD's fitted, but the millions of private dwellings in the rest of the UK can continue as they are?
Surely a life is a life....

 

[Spazz]

RCD's are only a good thing, but this could only be applied at change of tenant

Why - how long does it take to change a main switch for an RCD? not long!

RCD's are not notifiable!

You only have to check Zs.

The problems comes where you have an earth leakage.

I normally insist in them having a full EICR done at the same time - then your looking at change-overs.
But I normally persuade them to have a full CU change and tell them that it includes a free EICR and I can do it for the same price plus I will also throw in 6 years work guarantee as well.

EICR is an inspection - you do a full inspection when you do a CU change
6 years work guarantee - standard with all notifiable work - but you make out its a free be.

They usually go for the CU change.

Out of interest how much does everyone charge for:
EICR and MK RCD change?
Replacement CU (10 way) - also how much does the parts cost?

Both have all earth bonding in place and no problems - simple change.

 

[oldtimer]

Nicholas I have done a similar thing with the Scottish Parliament on their review with rental properties with regards to testing and insisting on scheme provider members only that can sign. So what wrong with that well I had to remind them that if they did this it would be a restriction of free trade under European law an example would be the 2 boxers who could not get a permit to fight in the uk but because Luxemburg gave them one they could not be stopped from plying their trade as it were. I also highlighted that the Schemies had a conflict of interest as they were advising the committee but at the same time they would gain financially selling courses and registration plus I highlighted that the Visual Electrical Inspection Report was not worth the paper it was written on and enquired if it was a legal document why was it not included in the BGB.

Plus the regs are not retrospective so as some of the guys say it it passes muster then it ok so am i putting this down NO because it is either going to be the Welsh or the Scottish Parliments who will pass something a bit like the minimum cost and the no promotions on alcohol law up here that is being adopted by the rest of the UK so I ont think they will force the use of RCDs but more like push them in that direction or in other word get an EICR every 5 years but if no RCD then get it every year so economically you would be cheaper to get a RCD yes politics work in a strange way so all the best and good luck