Change in the Law regarding RCDs in Rental Properties

[alarm man]

i read a post that nics family own a load of rental properties,nics a spark,the maths add up to me.

 

[Risteard]

What is the purpose of the 63A then - they can be used as a main switch - the MCB is mainly responsible for over current - agreed - the RCD can detect very high overcurrent that the MCB should of picked up long before!

In the case of that RCCB it means that it can safely carry 63A in service. It does not mean that it will offer any overcurrent protection should that be exceeded, as it won't. The only type of RCD that will is an RCBO as it has integral overcurrent protection (hence the name RCBO).

An RCCB will only offer protection against earth faults.

 

[Spazz]

i read a post that nics family own a load of rental properties,nics a spark,the maths add up to me.

I wish - I dont get paid for doing work on any of his houses - apart from a flat gift of £40 (if Im lucky!)

 

[alarm man]

I wish - I dont get paid for doing work on any of his houses - apart from a flat gift of £40 (if Im lucky!)

Thanks mo the test - best advice

You are right the only assets I is the van (£1,000 worth) and the car (£10,000 worth) as well as all my tools (£1,000 worth) and my IT equipment (about £800 worth)
So £13K in total - nothing compared to most others on here and in the trade.

I have just been given a plot (not in my name and not going in my name (in my brothers name at present) - it was to offset death tax of my grandfather who is expected to go within the next 7 years so hes given all his assets away to the grandkids - mine in my brothers name because of the legal aid situation) was thinking of starting building on it in the next few months - self build. I done this before a few years back but not sure if I can afford to do it till new year.

Im happy to discuss the situation with u mo, but I think you have it down to a T at the moment - I will stay S/E - thanks for the advice!

Read more: http://www.electriciansforums.net/business-related/58377-self-employed-limited.html#ixzz1yB3KJeuJ

maybe so,but thats your post mate,i think you are doing ok,some people are looking to see if they can feed thier family in the new year,your looking to build a house,if you can build a house on 8k a year income,id be happy to see the details on how to do it.

 

[Dave 85]

One thing I really dont get:

Everyone on here is for installing RCDs in domestic properties so why is it when a proposal of a change of law regarding having them in all rental properties everyone objects to them.
Most of you are looking at this and saying that the landlord wont do it - he wont have a choice!
Plus honestly if you went into a rental property and they wanted a shower what would you do? - install an RCD at a cost of how much? Instead of putting that RCD outside of the CU (which most do) why not put it inside instead?

We are all pushing for RCDs in all homes as it is so why are some of you against it being mandatory - it will make your life easier.
Plus we are not talking big money here either -these landlords get £400 - £700 per month (depending on the size of the property) they should be putting part of that back in.

Yes RCDs go home, yes they pack up but so does cookers, so do cars - they would not think twice about replacing them would they!

Like has been said endless times - mot of us are sick and tired of landlords/home owners putting their/their children/their tenants safety after their items (cars, etc)

I bet everyone here (who is an electrician) has a RCD in your home and every house you are connected with so why on earth wont you push for having them in every home by law?
Yes I know what you are going to say next - we are not pushing for every home - this is because we cant! Rental Properties are different - they are commercial and domestic at the same time as well as the landlord having someone elses life in their hands - different situation completely - the law can enforce different conditions on them where as they cant on a home owner.

Same can be said with Hotels, Pubs, Child Care facilities, etc, etc, etc.


Im not going to touch on EICRs because from what I see - everyone is for this!
The question is:
1 year and scrap in-between tenants
5 years with visual in-between tenants


In regards to enforcement as has been said - the LA licencing team (when it comes in for rentals) will enforce this and everything else imposed on landlords.
I know the complications which goes with this - but thats on their heads not ours or the landlords

I dont have an RCD in my house. I also have a load of rather shoddy DIY wiring that the previous owner did that I haven't done anything about, and I've been here 3 years.
Why?
Because its perfectly safe so why bother?
Maybe Ill stick a new board on when I sell to add value but who knows.

This whole thread all smells a bit too nanny state to me. Yes RCD's are a good thing, yes I agree that new installs should have them, no I do not agree that we should force a financially struggling british public to spend even more of its hard earned cash on something rather pointless.

The whole thing is completely unenforcable anyway, your wasting your time and everyone can see it but you....
You can't chop an RCD into the tails these days cos it will knock out the whole install in the event of a fault, so it would, more often than not, mean a CU change, but you cant do a CU change unless there is bonding etc and all circuits are 100% up to scratch so in some cases this would mean major work/rewire just to be able to adere to your silly RCD rule.

Personally I think you are attempting to change the UK laws purely to give your self more work.

Oh and Nick....Have you actually properly researched how many people are killed in the UK, let alone wales, every year by the fixed wiring in their home. It probably accounts for about 1 in every 50 000 deaths, and I'd guess a good number of them were doing a bit of DIY electrics when they bought it.
There are far more important things to be campaigning about.

Edit:
People who intentionally keep their declared earnings low in order to cream huge sums of money out of the poor downtrodden tax payer for example....

 

[Geoffsd]

Personally I think you are attempting to change the UK laws purely to give your self more work.

The mark of a true politician.

 

[oldtimer]

Well one idea would be an EICR every 2 years if no RCD fitted then every 5-6 years if RCD fitted

 

[sparc]

I do not agree that we should force a financially struggling british public to spend even more of its hard earned cash on something rather pointless.

....

Completely agree on that score, but what really ticks me off is going into a house where 000s have been spent on furnishings and the latest gadgets and technology, then underneath it all you find crappy 60s wiring and an old re-wireable fuse board with half a dozen extra circuits tacked on the side.

Sure there's a lot of people that couldn't afford to spend on upgrading electrics, but there's also a lot that will never see it as a priority.

 

[UNG]

Well one idea would be an EICR every 2 years if no RCD fitted then every 5-6 years if RCD fitted

Why !!

Completely agree on that score, but what really ticks me off is going into a house where 000s have been spent on furnishings and the latest gadgets and technology, then underneath it all you find crappy 60s wiring and an old re-wireable fuse board with half a dozen extra circuits tacked on the side.

Sure there's a lot of people that couldn't afford to spend on upgrading electrics, but there's also a lot that will never see it as a priority.

Is an RCD or new consumer unit a must have gadget, if you can't afford to upgrade it is ok to leave it if you can afford it you should upgrade it not quite sure of the logic

 

[swifts]

Interesting Nicholas that you had a positive response from an assembly member I doubt though whether that same response will be forthcoming from the Welsh government.
​

 

[Fleetwood]

I hope you will allow me to make a comment on your thread. I firmly believe all properties should have a RCD fitted. I'm retired now but when I was a telephone engineer - a long time ago - we often had leakage faults which would cause havoc with the old 'Party Lines'. These, if you recall, were two telephones sharing the same exchange line (one pair of wires) for speech but using a local earth for signalling. Well, as you can imagine, an earth leakage at one property could ring telephone bells in half a street! To find the culprit property we'd earth another telephone line back at the Exchange, which could be a couple of miles away and then using a connection to that earth, locate the fault by measuring the potential difference between that and the local earth. Using something as simple as a wire attached to a screw driver, we could take readings off the ground, and following the highest, get led right to the property with the leak and to the actual fault itself. Quite often faulty immersion heaters or plug in appliances. Cooker rings were a favourite. Often the owner would tell us they'd been having 'tingles' from the taps! RCD's absolutely a good idea.

 

[IQ Electrical]

I hope you will allow me to make a comment on your thread. I firmly believe all properties should have a RCD fitted. I'm retired now but when I was a telephone engineer - a long time ago - we often had leakage faults which would cause havoc with the old 'Party Lines'. These, if you recall, were two telephones sharing the same exchange line (one pair of wires) for speech but using a local earth for signalling. Well, as you can imagine, an earth leakage at one property could ring telephone bells in half a street! To find the culprit property we'd earth another telephone line back at the Exchange, which could be a couple of miles away and then using a connection to that earth, locate the fault by measuring the potential difference between that and the local earth. Using something as simple as a wire attached to a screw driver, we could take readings off the ground, and following the highest, get led right to the property with the leak and to the actual fault itself. Quite often faulty immersion heaters or plug in appliances. Cooker rings were a favourite. Often the owner would tell us they'd been having 'tingles' from the taps! RCD's absolutely a good idea.

I don't think anyone here would disagree that RCDs are 'a good idea' but forcing the retrospective installation of RCDs is an entirely different prospect!

 

[Dave 85]

The funny thing is, there is not even any concrete requirement to have new builds blanket RCD protected. If it was a flat (not ground floor) all studwork, with cables >50mm deep, then you could get away with just bathrooms.
If there is no blanket requirement for RCD's on new builds, Im not quite sure how nick expects them to be made mandatory for old properties.

 

[IQ Electrical]

The funny thing is, there is not even any concrete requirement to have new builds blanket RCD protected. If it was a flat (not ground floor) all studwork, with cables >50mm deep, then you could get away with just bathrooms.
If there is no blanket requirement for RCD's on new builds, Im not quite sure how nick expects them to be made mandatory for old properties.

Well you'd still have all socket outlets for general use and all circuits in special locations requiring 30mA RCD protection (assuming the studwork was wooden) but I see your point.

 

[Geoffsd]

I hope you will allow me to make a comment on your thread. I firmly believe all properties should have a RCD fitted. I'm retired now but when I was a telephone engineer - a long time ago - we often had leakage faults which would cause havoc with the old 'Party Lines'. These, if you recall, were two telephones sharing the same exchange line (one pair of wires) for speech but using a local earth for signalling. Well, as you can imagine, an earth leakage at one property could ring telephone bells in half a street! To find the culprit property we'd earth another telephone line back at the Exchange, which could be a couple of miles away and then using a connection to that earth, locate the fault by measuring the potential difference between that and the local earth. Using something as simple as a wire attached to a screw driver, we could take readings off the ground, and following the highest, get led right to the property with the leak and to the actual fault itself. Quite often faulty immersion heaters or plug in appliances. Cooker rings were a favourite. Often the owner would tell us they'd been having 'tingles' from the taps! RCD's absolutely a good idea.

Perhaps The GPO should have used their own wiring.
Was that back when we had to wait three months for a telephone? - if we were lucky.
(Just imagine the kids today going to Carphone Warehouse and ordering a phone for October.)

There is nothing to stop everyone in the country having RCDs fitted if they wish.

We just don't need any more laws which are not enforced, or do you envisage 'The RCD Police'.

 

[Fleetwood]

Perhaps The GPO should have used their own wiring.
Was that back when we had to wait three months for a telephone? - if we were lucky.
(Just imagine the kids today going to Carphone Warehouse and ordering a phone for October.)

There is nothing to stop everyone in the country having RCDs fitted if they wish.

We just don't need any more laws which are not enforced, or do you envisage 'The RCD Police'.

Not sure what you mean by using our own wiring. Our earth connection had to a spiked earth separate to any Consumer earth. But in the end, earth is earth when it's only yards between them. Thats why we couldn't locate the leakage without an earth some distance away to give the Potenial difference.
Yes it was a lot different in those days. Any colour phone as long as it's black at one time. If you owned a nice big red fire engine we could give you a red one!

 

[thewisdomgeeza]

see here for cheap RCB's and various other items
http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...ess-stock-various-brands-bnib.html#post565573

 

[Myra]

Hello I am Myra. It is good to know about the change of law for the benefit of public at large. I can get the idea through this platform about change law about RCDs in rental properties for the welfare of people.

 

[jase1638]

A £10 modification to prevent a potential death - no brainer to me

 

[Knobhead]

Hello I am Myra. It is good to know about the change of law for the benefit of public at large. I can get the idea through this platform about change law about RCDs in rental properties for the welfare of people.

The only thing this thread is about is the welfare of electricians bank accounts.