Chasing cable in a ceiling

[Diddy]

Ok here is some light reading for you. As I said Bs7671 is referred to often in court to show compliance or non compliance with the EAW act 1989....Which IS an act of parliament which IS therefore a law. Go and check with the guys who write the rules over at the iet forums. They have had this very discussion in depth so you can see the outcome of debates from over the years on there too.
At the end of the day many of us may not agree with interpretations of regulations and even weather something is legal or not. We can only offer professional opinion...which is what you originally sought. Now you can and have challenged us over our view over the job posted...You are getting a "free" opinion from professionals who's business it is to stay abreast of these regulations day in day out all of our working lives.
Now I have no idea what you do for a living but how would you feel if I asked you about a different way of doing your job and you told me I was wrong...that this is not the correct way to do it because of XYZ...how would you feel with my limited experience of your job that I then tell you that your free advice is wrong and that you are looking at your job all wrong.....Does that come across as a well thought out plan to you ?
As I say the IET discuss the regulations for breakfast lunch and supper.....they may even quote other regulations and the relevant "law tree" that "could" be used against you in court.

 

[westward10]

Well done for altering it. The problem here, if it was a problem in the first place is that BS7671 doesn't refer to zones across ceilings, or floors for that matter is because it is not an expected route to be taken and hence there is no reason to refer to it. I for one found it quite entertaining, no offence.

 

[westward10]

Ok here is some light reading for you. As I said Bs7671 is referred to often in court to show compliance or non compliance with the EAW act 1989....Which IS an act of parliament which IS therefore a law. Go and check with the guys who write the rules over at the iet forums. They have had this very discussion in depth so you can see the outcome of debates from over the years on there too.
At the end of the day many of us may not agree with interpretations of regulations and even weather something is legal or not. We can only offer professional opinion...which is what you originally sought. Now you can and have challenged us over our view over the job posted...You are getting a "free" opinion from professionals who's business it is to stay abreast of these regulations day in day out all of our working lives.
Now I have no idea what you do for a living but how would you feel if I asked you about a different way of doing your job and you told me I was wrong...that this is not the correct way to do it because of XYZ...how would you feel with my limited experience of your job that I then tell you that your free advice is wrong and that you are looking at your job all wrong.....Does that come across as a well thought out plan to you ?
As I say the IET discuss the regulations for breakfast lunch and supper.....they may even quote other regulations and the relevant "law tree" that "could" be used against you in court.

No one is taking him to court and the E&WR don't apply to him, he asked for advise, got it and is changing the method he has used.

 

[Gigsy]

Ok here is some light reading for you. As I said Bs7671 is referred to often in court to show compliance or non compliance with the EAW act 1989....Which IS an act of parliament which IS therefore a law. Go and check with the guys who write the rules over at the iet forums. They have had this very discussion in depth so you can see the outcome of debates from over the years on there too.
At the end of the day many of us may not agree with interpretations of regulations and even weather something is legal or not. We can only offer professional opinion...which is what you originally sought. Now you can and have challenged us over our view over the job posted...You are getting a "free" opinion from professionals who's business it is to stay abreast of these regulations day in day out all of our working lives.
Now I have no idea what you do for a living but how would you feel if I asked you about a different way of doing your job and you told me I was wrong...that this is not the correct way to do it because of XYZ...how would you feel with my limited experience of your job that I then tell you that your free advice is wrong and that you are looking at your job all wrong.....Does that come across as a well thought out plan to you ?
As I say the IET discuss the regulations for breakfast lunch and supper.....they may even quote other regulations and the relevant "law tree" that "could" be used against you in court.

I value all of your advice, I changed the circuit in accordance with the advice given in this forum. Thank you all for your valuable advice.
I do not know what objections you had regarding my original plan? The regulations people stated my original plan was contravening had no relevance to my design, but I changed it anyway.

In regard to the law and BS7671 and the electricity at work act. The electricity at work act does not apply as the work was done in my home, and so long as my design is safe there is not a lawyer in the land that can touch me, regardless of anything in BS7671. If however I designed a dangerous circuit, then yes it could be proved my design was dangerous by quoting the regulations in BS7671.

 

[Gigsy]

I think the problem with electricians is that they think they are the only people who are capable of reading and understanding BS7671. Maybe it is because they had difficulty understanding the regulations and needed them explaining to them is the reason they do not think other people are capable of understanding them. Jo Bloggs is perfectly entitled to design and install alterations and additions to a circuit, and can quite easily design and install a circuit safely armed with a copy of the on-site guide. Electricity is not difficult to understand. It is not difficult to put a wire in a hole and tighten the screw!

 

[westward10]

Quit while you are ahead

 

[Pat H]

And if a DIYer gets it wrong and a family member or guest is injured or worse?
Or as is often the case a fire is caused. Then explaining to the inurance company becomes an issue.

I can drive down the motorway with my eyes closed. As long as I don't hit anyone alls well.

 

[westward10]

I would leave it Pat, I have actually tried to defend his actions in light of people throwing laws etc at him and he has changed what he has done but he will do this till the cows come home.

 

[Gigsy]

Well done for altering it. The problem here, if it was a problem in the first place is that BS7671 doesn't refer to zones across ceilings, or floors for that matter is because it is not an expected route to be taken and hence there is no reason to refer to it. I for one found it quite entertaining, no offence.

And if a DIYer gets it wrong and a family member or guest is injured or worse?
Or as is often the case a fire is caused. Then explaining to the inurance company becomes an issue.

I can drive down the motorway with my eyes closed. As long as I don't hit anyone alls well.

The same applies to if an electrician gets it wrong, then they cause a fire or kill someone. Like I said it is not difficult to understand, it is very hard to get it wrong. Everything is standardised, all the hard work has been done for us and is all there for everyone to read in the on site guide!

 

[westward10]

Go to bed.

 

[David M]

The same applies to if an electrician gets it wrong, then they cause a fire or kill someone. Like I said it is not difficult to understand, it is very hard to get it wrong. Everything is standardised, all the hard work has been done for us and is all there for everyone to read in the on site guide!

No, installing a cable and an accessory might be quite simple to a competent person. But testing that circuit, interpreting and understanding the results, what they mean and why they are required, requires training and experience. If an electrician makes a mistake then usually that fault is found during the inspect & test and can be rectified before the circuit goes into service. Therefore it is very extremely unlikely a fully qualified experienced electrician will put into service a potentially dangerous electrical installation.

Being a qualified electrician means more than just following the onsite guide to install a cable!

 

[Gigsy]

No, installing a cable and an accessory might be quite simple to a competent person. But testing that circuit, interpreting and understanding the results, what they mean and why they are required, requires training and experience. If an electrician makes a mistake then usually that fault is found during the inspect & test and can be rectified before the circuit goes into service. Therefore it is very extremely unlikely a fully qualified experienced electrician will put into service a potentially dangerous electrical installation.

Being a qualified electrician means more than just following the onsite guide to install a cable!

I have a multi function tester m8, they aint hard to use and the results from the tests are simple to understand. If you wire the circuit correctly there is a very small chance there will be a fault in the circuit, stop trying to scare people.

 

[David M]

I have a multi function tester m8, they aint hard to use and the results from the tests are simple to understand. If you wire the circuit correctly there is a very small chance there will be a fault in the circuit, stop trying to scare people.

My post has nothing to do with scaring people! The post was not a personal attack on you either! You may well be fully competent in electrical installations and also able to use and understand the required tests and equipment, I know nothing about you or your capabilities.
But what I do know is this, the vast majority of folk who may well be competent enough to do a simple socket / light install will not be conversant with the required inspection and testing. They may install the circuit and everything is just tickety boo. Testing is there not only to make sure there is no fault, but also to determine that during normal service or in the event of a fault there is adequate protection. I doubt that your average D.I.Yer will have any clue what this means.

So I will re-iterate!! its not scare mongering, its fact!

So you stop spouting on about Mr D.I.Yer is just fine to go and do an electrical install, because that is bulls..t.

 

[Diddy]

I would leave it Pat, I have actually tried to defend his actions in light of people throwing laws etc at him and he has changed what he has done but he will do this till the cows come home.

Go to bed.

INDEED YOU DID - I was a little peeved by your "Leave it he has changed it attitude" But noticed you are a "Top poster" so backed off and left you too it lol.
What I was trying to add to this thread was the "What if" factor and to open the op's eyes into why these regulations are there - what actually happens if they are not followed AND where and why a court would/could and does use the regs. But anyway I haven't got time to pee about with self important people weather they be op or top posters lol. Peace out im out of the thread as there is just no point........It's hard becoming a top poster innit !!

 

[Darkwood]

May I remind everyone not to lower the tone by having a pop at each other, if you believe a post is offensive then report it, if you disagree with someone then reply in a adult manner and defend your corner without dragging the thread down to cheap attacks of other members like name calling or baiting responses.

If you feel you cannot interact with a particular member without lowering the tone then either block them so you cannot see their posts or just move on, if we keep seeing this of any member then staff will step in (Note the OP is having a break for similar reasons).

Thread closed .. it will be re-opened if the OP returns and decides he wants to continue the discussion.