Conversion of GU5.3 (MR16) Downlights to GU10 - Earthing?

[Piratepete]

Hi Guys

Converting to GU10 for LEDs. Is earthing required?

When does a downlight fitting need to be earthed? What makes it Double Insulated?

I have 2 GU10 fittings in front of me.
One is an LAP open GU10. It's Double Insulated, the socket leads are not continuously so. The frame is metal and the terminal box is attached to it.
The other is an Ansell Icage fire rated. It's Class I (earthed), the leads are double insulated. The construction is an open metal frame with a top, but the leads pass through a hole in the top.
Why the difference?

I'm trying to make it economical (quick) to convert 12V halogens to 230V LEDs. My clients are very good at working out the cost benefits of power saving against the cost of conversion or replacement.

Would it be safe to say that can type need to be earthed and the open type dont, provided you use the 'new regulation' (black socket cap, double insulated leads) GU10 connectors?

Cheers

Pete

 

[telectrix]

if the fitting has an earth terminal connected to the metalwork, then it's class1. some class 2 have a 3 way block, but no connection to the metalwork. these don't need a cpc, but there should be one into the block.

 

[Piratepete]

if the fitting has an earth terminal connected to the metalwork, then it's class1. some class 2 have a 3 way block, but no connection to the metalwork. these don't need a cpc, but there should be one into the block.

Thanks for your reply. I think you miss my point. If you're converting a fitting from 12V (rarely earthed) to 230V do you need to earth the fitting? Some folks say yes, but some original GU10 fittings are earthed and some are not. I'm trying to determine the criteria.

Cheers!

 

[shanky887614]

Thanks for your reply. I think you miss my point. If you're converting a fitting from 12V (rarely earthed) to 230V do you need to earth the fitting? Some folks say yes, but some original GU10 fittings are earthed and some are not. I'm trying to determine the criteria.

Cheers!

the gu10 itself isnt but the holder should be earthed.

if your converting from 12v to 230 just replace the leg from where tranny was.

usually you can just pull old feed to one of the lights then pull new in

 

[sammyshooter]

What location are they going in?

 

[polo1]

What location are they going in?

What difference will location make over the need or not, to earth?

 

[baldsparkies]

Thanks for your reply. I think you miss my point. If you're converting a fitting from 12V (rarely earthed) to 230V do you need to earth the fitting? Some folks say yes, but some original GU10 fittings are earthed and some are not. I'm trying to determine the criteria.

Cheers!

If its class 1 it needs an earth, if its class 2 it won't, provisions for an existing cpc should be covered.
That is the criteria ??

 

[Piratepete]

If its class 1 it needs an earth, if its class 2 it won't, provisions for an existing cpc should be covered.
That is the criteria ??

I suppose that the question I'm asking is, if you have a fitting that's Class 2 at 12 volts, is there a need to make it Class 1 at 230V?

Pete

 

[Charlie_]

Some do and some don't.
instead of converting to mains voltage have you considered using MR16 LEDs?

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Reading between the lines it sounds as though you want to use the same downlight fittings that are currently housing MR16 and just put a GU10 fitting in them? Is that right? If the fitting is metal then I wouldn't be doing this without the fitting being earthed, unless it specifically shows the class 2 symbol.

Just because its 12V and doesn't need an earth does not make it a class 2 fitting, at 230V it could very well need earthing.

Have you checked back to the JB, I expect theres some curled up earths there that could be used in some new downlights, if not then I believe there are some class 2 230V downlights available.

 

[TJ Anderson]

I fitted some chrome IKEA fittings recently that were 240V Class 2 but the terminal block is not enclosed. If it was installed by a DIY'er and phase touched the casing in would just sit there at that potential until someone touched it. I should have been earthed IMO, I was really surprised it met the requirements for Class 2.

 

[Piratepete]

I fitted some chrome IKEA fittings recently that were 240V Class 2 but the terminal block is not enclosed. If it was installed by a DIY'er and phase touched the casing in would just sit there at that potential until someone touched it. I should have been earthed IMO, I was really surprised it met the requirements for Class 2.

Just shows what crap stuff is around! If you want to really get me going let's discuss the quality of light fittings,and not just the ones from the big sheds!

The similar 230V LAP fittings I mentioned in my post are Class 2. These 12V fittings are Aurora. I had a brainwave this PM and checked Aurora's website and found that their similar 230V version of these is Class 2. So there you go!
All this does make you wonder what the requirements are for Class 2?!

 

[Piratepete]

Some do and some don't.
instead of converting to mains voltage have you considered using MR16 LEDs?

Yes - don't want tranys.

 

[TJ Anderson]

don't want tranys.

We got a couple of those in our town, we don't want them either.

 

[Piratepete]

Reading between the lines it sounds as though you want to use the same downlight fittings that are currently housing MR16 and just put a GU10 fitting in them? Is that right? If the fitting is metal then I wouldn't be doing this without the fitting being earthed, unless it specifically shows the class 2 symbol.

Just because its 12V and doesn't need an earth does not make it a class 2 fitting, at 230V it could very well need earthing.

Have you checked back to the JB, I expect theres some curled up earths there that could be used in some new downlights, if not then I believe there are some class 2 230V downlights available.

Yes. They're quite nice recently fitted brass colour Aurora fittings. If I've got to earth them it means getting conversion kits with earth terminals - might as well buy new ones, but there are 30 of them.

 

[ImpededLoop]

If the GU10 lampholder and flylead is class 2 then I would say you're good to go.