Discuss Daikin Hydrobox Multizone Under floor Heating Stat wiring HELP in the Electric Underfloor Heating Wiring area at ElectriciansForums.net

Jon G

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Hi guys,

If anyone with experience in wiring these systems could help me I'd really appreciate it!

I'm currently first fixing a house with an external air source heat pump and a Hydrobox, There's 4 floors with a manifold on each of them. It has a thermostat in each room and I'm confused as to how to wire them. I've attached 2 wiring diagrams that I have been sent from the plumber. Both seem to be generic diagrams and the thermostat wiring looks different in both of them.

I haven't done a lot of heating system wiring in my time so really hope I can get some answers here.

The plumber doesn't seem to have a clue either.

I've also attached the zone drawings for clarity.

There is a total of 17 Thermostats so does that mean there are 17 NC 2 port valves??
 
Jon we had to wire suppies for a school changing room using this make a bit different set up as involved BMS by others and the A.S.H.P on the roof had 2 supplies and a hydrobox inside with one supply.the system set up shown in your attachments shows 1 supply to the ASHP and 2 to the internal Hydrobox no one had a clue how it all went together both m & e consultants.I don't want to be rude to you but do you not know how to wire any of it as som speaks for its self.Is the Hydrobox going in the airing cupboard with the cylinder then ASHP outside with UFH manafolds on each floor Hhave you contacted Diekin
 
To go from "I haven't done a lot of heating system wiring in my time "
To Air source and 17 zones over 4 floors is a massive leap.

P.s. 2 of the drawings are the same.

Who's doing the final connections for the heating, did you agree to it?
Someone designed this so should have specced what's required.

Yes each zone has a valve.
Each of the 4 floors has a manifold and pump with valves for each zone.
Plus there's a valve for the Hot Water on one of the floors and a back up immersion heater in it as well.
There should be a controller at each manifold where the thermostats are connected.
Also a back up heater in the main heating circuit.
 
Last edited:
Yes I've agreed to do the control wiring. I understand all of the wiring diagram apart from the thermostat diagram, If they added another room thermostat to the diagram it would make it clear to me.

Also the diagrams Untitled.pdf and MS-3238-04-A1.pdf show the stats wired differently. Volt free stat on one diagram and 230v stats on the other diagram.

The plumber told me that the 2 port valves are at the 'Hydrobox' location and the 'Underfloor Heating Central Control Boxes' are at the manifolds. It would make more sense to me if the '2 port valves' were at the manifolds.

So according to the Untitled.pdf diagram there will be 14 cables connected to '1 + 4 terminals' on the 'Hydrobox' as there are 14 '2 port valves' and 14 'room thermostats'.

It also doesn't show a 230v supply for the 'Underfloor Heating Central Control Boxes' which i'm pretty sure it would require.
 
Have you done UFH before ? as the heating that Snowhead has explained it quite well in his post (you will have to find out if r/stats are 230v or elv) get info on control box and stats.
Ask the plumber what the 2 2port valves are for in the basement one is for H.W confirm other
 
Yes I've agreed to do the control wiring. I understand all of the wiring diagram apart from the thermostat diagram, If they added another room thermostat to the diagram it would make it clear to me.

Also the diagrams Untitled.pdf and MS-3238-04-A1.pdf show the stats wired differently. Volt free stat on one diagram and 230v stats on the other diagram.

The plumber told me that the 2 port valves are at the 'Hydrobox' location and the 'Underfloor Heating Central Control Boxes' are at the manifolds. It would make more sense to me if the '2 port valves' were at the manifolds.

So according to the Untitled.pdf diagram there will be 14 cables connected to '1 + 4 terminals' on the 'Hydrobox' as there are 14 '2 port valves' and 14 'room thermostats'.

It also doesn't show a 230v supply for the 'Underfloor Heating Central Control Boxes' which i'm pretty sure it would require.
Someone must of designed this yet again poor old electrician to sort out to make it all work -getting back to the above I think this is a gineric drawing showing for rads and UFH.yes I think you will have 230v to each control box.Is there any wet towel rails as I can't see what the other valve is for.
 
You could use a wiring centre at each manifold with actuators, volt free switching and a 2 port valve for each manifold rather than having loads of 2 port valves. This way the zones would be controlled by individual thermostats which open and close the actuators, control the manifold pump, sends a demand to open/close 2 port and volt free switching could be done through the oranges and greys or built in relay to each wiring centre.

This way you would only need 1 two port for each manifold and 1 for hot water unless your using the supplied 3 port valve then you would only need one for each manifold. This job need specifying and designing as its not a bog standard set up. I could design the control side of this if you had a proper spec to work to. Send me a PM if your interested and we might be able to sort something out :).
 
correct me if I'm wrong here but I can noy see the point for the heating valve a 2 core cable daisy chained between each volt free contacts in each UFH manifold to terminals 1 & 4
 
This stuff is daily bread and butter for us, so if I describe how a well designed system should be set up (unfortunately 90% of them aren't well designed and even less are well installed) then hopefully you can get this right.

"I haven't done a lot of heating system wiring in my time, The plumber doesn't seem to have a clue either."

Kind of sums up what we see and why we have to fix so many installs, so I hope all this helps:

Firstly download the wiring diagrams from Honeywell and Heatmiser (for their ufh wiring centres) go on the free Honeywell training course.

1) Wall stats go back to an UFH wiring centre at each ufh manifold. Wall stats could be 12V, 230V or wireless, wall stats usually don't have floor stats in a wet ufh heating system, wet rooms (baths showers) usually have the stat outside and a remote sensor inside.
2) Each UFH wiring centre has two calls, one for the manifold circulation pump and the other is usually a 'boiler call', the boiler call is usually volt free, though can be connected to the live in the wiring centre so becomes a switched live in the ufh wiring centre.
3) as Heat pumps are often sensitive to stray voltage signals and you aren't necessarily able to separate the 'calls for heat switching cables from the ufh wiring centres back to the heat pump from other cables we ALWAYS use a contactor at the heat pump end (or multiple contactors if multiple ufh manifolds) there are lots of advantages in doing it this way especially if the house is 3 phase as a lot of our customers are.

It is simple then to create the call for heat that the heat pump wants - without knowing the details I would assume that is what 1 and 4 are for on X2M
Use a switched live and neutral from the ufh wiring centre to operate a contactor near the Heat Pump / Hyrdobox, then use the contactor terminals to do the zero volt switching for the Heat Pump
Most contactors have 2 pairs of terminals - see later re Low Loss Headers, that second pair can be used for the pumps if needed.

4) Be careful with the DHW and heating, heat pumps aren't like boilers they can't do both at the same time - they do one or the other, and alter their output temperature. Which is why the hyrdobox shows a 3 port valve - that is not your normal Y plan valve which are mid position valves they are diverter valves - only one outlet open at a time (W Plan)

It is unusual to 2 x 2 port valves on a heat pump system, if they are, then that is fine just don't wire them as S plan. Make it work like a W plan - that's what you can use 8,9 and 10 on X2M, Nnce again possible via contactors, or you can use use the microswitch in the S Plan two port valve to control the second two port valve espcially if it is a changeover switch, else you might need a normally closed contactor.

You shouldn't need 2 port valves at the manifolds as there should be actuators for each of the loops. and non-return valves at each manifold, also we put a programmable 'stat in EVERY room.

5) The DHW is controlled and programmed from the Heat Pump - it will have its own timers/ priorities and monitors the electronic stat in the cylinder - they are usually set up as DHW priority meaning that even if the heating is calling for heat the system will heat the Hot Water if that is also calling for heat.

This will get slightly more complicated as to work efficicently and without faulting the Heat Pump should also have either a low loss header (LLW) or a buffer tank, in that case the DHW comes off before the LLH or buffer and there may be an additional circulation pump(s) to run when there is a Heating call for heat.

Simples :)
Hope all that makes sense.
 

Reply to Daikin Hydrobox Multizone Under floor Heating Stat wiring HELP in the Electric Underfloor Heating Wiring area at ElectriciansForums.net

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