Eicr, board change recommendation?

[Baker1988]

Hi hope every one is having a good weekend.

I have recently started a job with a can who do eicr's/foxed wire testing and as I have only been qualified 2 years and worked mainly in commercial new installation so I have not had much experian in domestic eicr's. They are starting to train me by going around with the boss to the jobs but he has given me some examples and asked what I would do and one of them was "you go to a house and there is a plastic consumer unit with mcb's but has no rcd protection, the cables are buried into the walls" I think I would recommend a board change as the cables buried into the walls will probily be less than 50mm and also if I remember correctly in amendment 3 all cables going through the bathroom need rcd protection so would recommend a board change. Not that it will definatly need it as just because it is not not comply with current regs does not mean it is unsafe that's why it is recommended.

I could be totally wrong but that's why I am asking. If i am totally wrong can I ask what you would recommend a board change for?

 

[D Skelton]

It's not your place as an inspector to make recommendations. It's your place to make observations. That is all. The only recommendation made in connection to an observation is the level of urgency required to rectify the issue that has been noted and coded appropriately. Such recommendations are already set in stone.

If you are later approached to remedy observations made, there are many ways to skin a cat.

If all you're entering into the periodic inspection game for is to consistently recommend board changes, you're kidding yourself that you're a professional.

 

[Baker1988]

It is for a local authority and was told by my new boss that it has to be satisfactory they won't accept any thing else so if it needs stuff to make it satisfactory then it gets done, that's why I'm asking as if I do a c1 or c2 it needs to be sorted that includes missing bonding (as long as it needs it) or boards like if there is a whole in the board casing or stuff like that. That is why I am asking.

Also I am only entering into this because i it's the job I got as it is better than no job but I don't want to work in domestic or doing eicr's but that's the job I have.

I don't intend to just recommend board changes at all I'm just trying to see what would make you all think a board needed replacing

 

[D Skelton]

After a client has approached me to rectify issues brought to light in an EICR, I would recommend a board change if it was the cheapest and simplest way to rectify a C2 or a number of C2s. There would also be a suggestion that the introduction of RCDs will improve the safety of the installation but the client would be made fully aware that there is no requirement for them to do so.

For example; remember that a lack of RCD protected circuits in a bathroom is still only a C3. If however there is no RCD protection then it would be a lack of supplementary bonding within that same bathroom that would be a C2.

Would I recommend a £500 board change if all it would cost is £150 to bring the supplementary bonding up to standards? Most probably not.

Like I said, there are many ways to skin a cat, and as long as you are open and transparent with clients with regards to your methods, you cant go far wrong.

 

[Octopus]

Are these tests to generate business?

 

[Baker1988]

I totally agree that the cheapest way is better for the client and 150 sup bonding is cheaper than a board change.

Can I ask how long you would normally get to do a eicr in a standard 2 bed house with about 7 or 8 circuits?

I don't think the tests are to generate business well Not that I am aware of, I only started on Friday and shadowed one of there electricians and he basically walked into a house looked at the board and saw no rcd protection and walked out and put on the report that board change is required for rcd protection and that there is no reason to test as it would be tested when the board is changed which I thought was wrong but as I never done one was not sure. That is why I am going with the boss next week to see what is needed. I'm hoping he isn't just trying to make reasons to get remedials but I don't know as of yet

 

[Octopus]

I totally agree that the cheapest way is better for the client and 150 sup bonding is cheaper than a board change.

Can I ask how long you would normally get to do a eicr in a standard 2 bed house with about 7 or 8 circuits?

I don't think the tests are to generate business well Not that I am aware of, I only started on Friday and shadowed one of there electricians and he basically walked into a house looked at the board and saw no rcd protection and walked out and put on the report that board change is required for rcd protection and that there is no reason to test as it would be tested when the board is changed which I thought was wrong but as I never done one was not sure. That is why I am going with the boss next week to see what is needed. I'm hoping he isn't just trying to make reasons to get remedials but I don't know as of yet

The report is "precisely" to generate business.

A proper EICR, should be conducted on the installation... walking in, seeing no RCD and walking out is not a good sign.

Where did he tie up his horse?

 

[westward10]

Find another job then hand your notice in because in my opinion they are scam merchants.

 

[telectrix]

After a client has approached me to rectify issues brought to light in an EICR, I would recommend a board change if it was the cheapest and simplest way to rectify a C2 or a number of C2s. There would also be a suggestion that the introduction of RCDs will improve the safety of the installation but the client would be made fully aware that there is no requirement for them to do so.

For example; remember that a lack of RCD protected circuits in a bathroom is still only a C3. If however there is no RCD protection then it would be a lack of supplementary bonding within that same bathroom that would be a C2.

Would I recommend a £500 board change if all it would cost is £150 to bring the supplementary bonding up to standards? Most probably not.

Like I said, there are many ways to skin a cat, and as long as you are open and transparent with clients with regards to your methods, you cant go far wrong.

welcome back, field marshall; where you been?

 

[D Skelton]

Can I ask how long you would normally get to do a eicr in a standard 2 bed house with about 7 or 8 circuits?

Four hours minimum, plus 30 minutes to write up at the end of the day.

I don't think the tests are to generate business well Not that I am aware of, I only started on Friday and shadowed one of there electricians and he basically walked into a house looked at the board and saw no rcd protection and walked out and put on the report that board change is required for rcd protection and that there is no reason to test as it would be tested when the board is changed which I thought was wrong but as I never done one was not sure. That is why I am going with the boss next week to see what is needed. I'm hoping he isn't just trying to make reasons to get remedials but I don't know as of yet

Think you need to find a new job fella. These people are nothing more than unscrupulous con men. Your boss is not an electrician.

 

[D Skelton]

welcome back, field marshall; where you been?

I've been hovering haha. Still about, just rarely post. Nine times out of ten I figure it's probably not worth it. Broken records spring to mind.

 

[westward10]

There is a remote possibility the local authority has asked for this method of testing, no rcd, metal board etc.. to note it and move on but I doubt it. Get back into commercial work domestic is a rat race.

 

[Baker1988]

Hi every one just thought I would update you all the guy turned out to be a bit of rip off merchant, recommending board upgrades that was not needed even went so far as to say the board needed changing as it was damaged on a board he actually damaged trying to get the cover off (it had been painted round) as well as not even doing a proper eicr.

He told me that I needed to do 3-4 a day which included paperwork and the best way to do it was only live tests and to have a quick look around for damage that's it seemed a bit ---- to me when they was down as 100% fixed wire test.

So any way today I went and had a chat with him and quit which is ---- as now I'm out of work till I find something else but I didn't feel right doing what he asked me to.

 

[westward10]

You made the correct choice, good for you and another job will come around.

 

[bigspark17]

Good for you, stick to your morals.. with that attitude im sure you will succeed in the long run

 

[Hellmooth]

Well done mate, if you're worth your salt you'll find something soon enough.

 

[Richard Burns]

You have made a hard choice and made it correctly and I applaud you for that sensible action.
To continue to lower standards to a minimum is not a sound business approach.
I wish you luck in future progress and hope that you can gain a more professional job elsewhere.
Sorry you are out of work now, if karma is correct then you should be able to find something better very soon. I hope this is the case.

 

[mache]

Either as an individual or team up with another Spark and approach the local authority for testing contract. You can say that you had joined a company that currently provides this service to them (but don't mention names) and say you left them because of unscrupulous methods and false reporting. Tell them you now know that there is opening in the market for honest testing work at a time when local authorities are strapped for cash. You can say that your individual testing might be slightly more expensive but because you will only recommend truly required remedial work when necessary there will be savings in the long run.
Well it might be worth a try .....

 

[westward10]

No chance. I suspect the company he has just quit put in a very low price hence their work ethics in the hope of remedial works which probably don't need doing.

 

[Baker1988]

Hi every one, one last update.

I went to a job interview today with a local company doing commercial installs and got a call this afternoon saying I got the job. It does not start till the 22nd but I have a agancy job till then so all is good now don't have to do domestic.

Thanks for the advice lads.