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polo1

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....on a property rewired approx three years ago with no local isolation for the electric oven (using the cooker circuit) - Code 2 or 3?
Regards.
 
I do not believe BS7671 specifies a cooker must have a local isolator.
I would mention this in the covering letter or as a non coded observation.
 
I like local dp isolation, but don't think you can code it. Is it table 3 that states you can use the circuit breaker as means of isolation.?
 
Tbh, I was being a bit lazy in asking the question here, as my byb is in the hands of another. I was/am having brain fade on this. I know there is mention of local & remote isolation, but couldn't recall if isolation beyond the mcb is an actual requirement. I'm suitably embarrassed
 
Tbh, I was being a bit lazy in asking the question here, as my byb is in the hands of another. I was/am having brain fade on this. I know there is mention of local & remote isolation, but couldn't recall if isolation beyond the mcb is an actual requirement. I'm suitably embarrassed
Don't worry about it Polo, we are all here to help each other, My memory is rubbish can't remember what I done yesterday.lol
 
If the equipment or whatever broke down, caught fire whatever the manufacturer would certainly turn around and say "well you did not follow our instructions regards installation so we cant help"
 
Yeah and I guess trading standards and a judge will be quite happy with that.
Tell me, my oven with it's 3 pin plug, where exactly is the DP isolator supposed to go?
 
Fortunately, we no longer have to comply with manufacturer's instructions, just take account of them.
LOL. It's debateable whether that is really any different. If you "take account" of the instructions you might need good reason to then dismiss them.
 
Fortunately, we no longer have to comply with manufacturer's instructions, just take account of them.

I would be very carefull with that attitude, if an items fails and causes damage and manucarurers instructions have not been followed you are then liable.. extractor fans are prime example of this not being fused down to 3 amp. Ive read of instances where fires caused by extractor fans, the spark not fused down and then liable.
 
You have to remember that the majority of these are just the manufacturer desperately looking for a way out of paying.
For instance the change from a 6A MCB to a 3A fuse will make very little difference in the majority of faults, the "stalled" current of an extractor fan is unlikely to reach 6A and a short circuit will be in hundreds of amps and disconnect instantly either way. The fault current would have to be between 6 and 18A to make a difference and this is unlikely.

If an item has been installed professionally and safely there is little the manufacturer can really do in most cases, except try it on and succeed.
 
That is my point they will try it on and also suceed, in this case why would you you risk not installing a inline fuse, just use a fan iso insert and fuse insert on a 1gang faceplate costs few pounds, in the terrible case of a fan going on fire then the manufacturers have no1 to blame! I know as well as you that a 3amp fuse will make little diference, but a court will see it clearly in the MI and it will look like the installer has ignorered it therefore taking responsibility!
 
The requirement had to be changed.
Some instructions are physically impossible.
Others don't comply with BS7671.

To be honest, a recommendation for the rating of a fuse, is a little different from an instruction as to how fixed wiring should be installed.
 
For those saying the MI must be followed, what would you do if the MI were blatantly wrong (which I've seen on many an occasion)? Would you still follow them blindly, or would you apply a little common sense and decide for yourself the best course of action? If you'd do the latter, how is that any different than choosing not to provide a local isolator for an appliance?

I suppose a common example is if you had to get a fridge cable through a unit. The MI says you must use the fitted plug. Keeping that intact is going to be a nice big hole somewhere in the unit. Option 2 is you could cut the end off, drill a nice snug smaller hole, and attach another plug leaving a tidier job. It's no less safe than it was with the fitted plug.
 
For those saying the MI must be followed, what would you do if the MI were blatantly wrong (which I've seen on many an occasion)? Would you still follow them blindly, or would you apply a little common sense and decide for yourself the best course of action? If you'd do the latter, how is that any different than choosing not to provide a local isolator for an appliance?

I suppose a common example is if you had to get a fridge cable through a unit. The MI says you must use the fitted plug. Keeping that intact is going to be a nice big hole somewhere in the unit. Option 2 is you could cut the end off, drill a nice snug smaller hole, and attach another plug leaving a tidier job. It's no less safe than it was with the fitted plug.

Well reg - 134.1.1 - If you choose to not follow that reg you blatently ignoring bs7671 & MI, i dont think that would look good in a court room. I think a plug top is a diferent situation not being part of the fixed installation, but i for one do not cut sealed plugs on appliances as it invalidates the appliances warranty, and a hole cut just right for plug at the back of the unit which will be full of stuff isnt an eyesore, plus when the customer changes the appliance they dont need to call an electricin in or try and do tge plug themselves. Whats your position on 3amp fuses in fans that require them in theor MI HT.?
 
Well reg - 134.1.1 - If you choose to not follow that reg you blatently ignoring bs7671 & MI, i dont think that would look good in a court room.

In the BYB it states under 134.1.1 that "The installation of electrical equipment shall TAKE ACCOUNT of manufacturers' instructions", where as it used to say that they must be followed. The reason they probably changed it is because people would blindly follow incorrect advice just because it looked all official like from the manufacturer. It's perfectly legitimate to TAKE ACCOUNT of MI but disregard them all the same if you feel (as a trained professional) the need.

As for 3A fuses, I'd have nothing to add to what Richard has already said at the top of the page.
 

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