Discuss Fixed Ring in Kitchen - Wanted to check my understanding in the DIY Electrical Advice area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Dave78

Hi all, I've just been talking with a kitchen fitting company as we're currently looking at (surprise surprise) getting a new kitchen. Anyway, we are wanting to add in a dishwasher, and also replacing the existing freestanding fridge/freezer with two separate under counter ones.

I've tried to draw out what is being suggested, given a picture is worth 1000 words and all that. Black is existing, red is what's new. All the wiring is 2.5mm T+E

As I understand what they are proposing, is to replace the existing back box of two of the existing FCU with a dual back box. Take one of the ring wires into one of the FCU, and the other wire into the other FCU, and then connecting the two together. Thereby effectively adding in an extra FCU to the fixed ring. There was talk about using a MK Grid plus with two switches and two fuses so it'd all fit in a standard 2gang back box - but the idea is the same.

I understand the adding of the FCU's to the circuit - the logically and physical actions of connecting it all up all make sense. However my concerns are mostly around the loadings all that could put on the circuit. I know we're mostly likely going to have both washing machine and dishwasher on together overnight (according to their spec's they can both pull in 10A) so that's a possible 20A before anything else. I've been trying to find out this afternoon some info on the others.

I'd rather be able to say now to the kitchen company, nope we have to have an additional circuit, and that all get costing in - than have the kitchen finished and then start having it trip when things are on. And then start having to change circuits etc.

So could I:
a) check that is this an ok modification to the circuit for them to be suggesting?
b) should I be concerned about the loadings of this circuit.

Thanks all.

Fixed Ring in Kitchen - Wanted to check my understanding Kitchen Wirin - EletriciansForums.net
 
Hi Dave and Welcome to the Forum !
If you want an extra circuit now is definitely the time, it might just cost a bit more. FYI my family kitchen has a similar 32A rfc set up, only with an extra microwave, dryer, toaster, kettle and fridge. I would prefer to have a second circuit myself, but the existing circuit works fine with no problems.
Can I ask what circuit have you got for the oven?
 
Where do all the 13Amp switched sockets for Kitchen use, and Oven supplies fit into your scheme, as all I see are switched fused spurs and and non switched spurs.
 
Where do all the 13Amp switched sockets for Kitchen use, and Oven supplies fit into your scheme, as all I see are switched fused spurs and and non switched spurs.
I think he is just showing the part to be altered, seems fine to me.
 
I would be very surprised to see any domestic appliance (non cooking) drawing 10A's, it would ruin those pretty economy data sheets they have to provide.

Who is this kitchen installer?
 
The loading you suggest is unlikely to trip a MCB.

how old is your fuse board?
 
Where do all the 13Amp switched sockets for Kitchen use, and Oven supplies fit into your scheme, as all I see are switched fused spurs and and non switched spurs.
Hi Pete, Yes sorry only showed the fixed ring that was to be changed. the 13Amp switched sockets are on a different circuit and the oven is on it's own circuit altogether.
 
The loading you suggest is unlikely to trip a MCB.

how old is your fuse board?

I expect about 20 years old, as guessing (I know should never guess anything) it's the one put in when the house was built about 20 years ago.

I had been wondering about when the electrical work is done in the kitchen, getting the whole house checked for any other electrical work so it can have a complete clean bill of health.
 
you don't need FCUs for each under worktop appliance. a 20A D/P switch is a better option, as each appliance has a 13A fuse in it's plug top.
Such switches are not tested for the current carrying capacity of a ring final circuit like BS1363 fuse connection units. How would they be a better option.
 
Such switches are not tested for the current carrying capacity of a ring final circuit like BS1363 fuse connection units. How would they be a better option.
the 20A switches will only need to handle the current drawn by 1 appliance, which is fused @ 13A.
 
This is another old argument where the two sides never the twain shall meet:)

The 20 amp switch would be a better option if only because it omits one unnecessary fuse from the equation:thumbsup:
The doubts always expressed about them have ccc unsuitable for a ring are a red herring in my estimation
The switch contacts may be 20 amp but the actual feed connections are no different to those of a socket,the same brand items are often identical in size/ shape
 
the 20A switches will only need to handle the current drawn by 1 appliance, which is fused @ 13A.
It is nothing to do with the switching current but the incoming terminals on the switch which are not tested for ring final circuit requirements.
 
i'm with des. can't see a problem. what if the ring conductors went into a 3 port wago with 1 conductor to the switch terminal?
 
As a side note (and nothing to do with the electrical requirements) I recently moved from a kitchen with a fridge freezer to one with an under counter built in fridge, and found it a massive step backwards. There is a lot less space and it's very hard to find things without getting down on hands and knees.
 
With regards the whole not needing a FCU and just having a 20A DP switch above the worktop. I understand why there's no need to have a fuse as there's one in the plug. I've also been told you can always unplug it if you wanted to switch it off/isolate it. But would much rather have a switch to switch it off if going away for a while.

Personally (and this is just a personal viewpoint) I would rather have a switch and fuse where I can easily access them, and then have the actual appliance hard wired into the circuit (so not just plugged in with the 13A plug under the worktop). So should a fuse need replacing I don't then have to take the built in appliance out just to replace a fuse.

I know one of my friends who has some appliances plugged into hard to reach places, just down rates the fuse on the FCU - for example the fridge is plugged in under the worktop with it's as delievered 13A plug, but there's a 10A fuse in the FCU - logic being that the 10A should let go well before the 13A in the plug and therefore much easier to get to in order to replace.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
As a side note (and nothing to do with the electrical requirements) I recently moved from a kitchen with a fridge freezer to one with an under counter built in fridge, and found it a massive step backwards. There is a lot less space and it's very hard to find things without getting down on hands and knees.

We've looked and the under counter fridge is about the same size as our current fridge in the fridge/freezer. I'll let the wife know about the having to find things aspect as it's not something I've thought of. Our main reason for moving to under counter is we can then squeeze in a corner unit (on both floor and wall) giving us lots more storage space, which we can then move things off the worktop and giving us more worktop space in the process, in addition to the corner unit giving us more worktop space.
 
We've looked and the under counter fridge is about the same size as our current fridge in the fridge/freezer. I'll let the wife know about the having to find things aspect as it's not something I've thought of. Our main reason for moving to under counter is we can then squeeze in a corner unit (on both floor and wall) giving us lots more storage space, which we can then move things off the worktop and giving us more worktop space in the process, in addition to the corner unit giving us more worktop space.
on that basis then, i'd use the under counter fridge and freezer for things like milk, eggs, beer, etc; stuff you want to hand regularly, and retain the fridge freezer in utility room, garage , or similar easily accessible location for main storage.
 

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