Discuss Fuseboard upgrade. Surveying / condition reports and testing. in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Hi guys.

I wanted some advice.
I've been trading for almost 12 months and I'm still relatively new (and slow) at testing. And testing is the bit of the job I dread and lose time on.
I'm NIC EIC registered as a domestic installer. So I can't officially do condition reports yet.

I've noticed my competitors are charging a bit less than me to do board changes and I don't know if I am being too expensive, taking too long or my competitors are too cheap.

I charge a days labour plus materials. Usually I fit MK, AMD 3, 5+5 split load boards.
First I go in and test the installation as if it was an initial verification (I haven't come across a job with any previous certification yet), then I highlight any faults and relay this to the client to be put right before I carry out the board change and then repeat testing upon completion.
Previously to working for myself I never did any testing, I only did installation work. And practically all of my experience is in domestic properties.

Is it ok for me to just check a sample of the installation?
How do you guys go about board changes?

Sometimes I'll spend ages trying to get IR to >999M ohms, before I give up and write down the value I actually find. I know >1M ohms is acceptable but I always try to get it as high as possible disconnecting loads etc,
Also do you guys check R1 +R2 at every point or just a sample light at ceiling points?
Do you remove all lamps, disconnect boilers, cookers etc etc
Do you document which points you took your samples from?

I'm asking because I have just been to a job that has no earths on the lighting circuits, and the lighting circuits are not on an RCD either.
I've suggested to the customer we upgrade the board first so then I can test the whole property which will give me an idea of the current condition of the installation.
 
It seems to me you are doing a buck shee Eicr for a relatively simple intended job

I would say,where it appears a thorough test and inspect is going to be required,you could recommend a Eicr to identify whats needed
Charge the many pennies for the report then maybe proceed with whats needed as a separate job

Testing that you do on the Eicr can contribute to the board change Eic later
For a board change,I take my chances and sort out any problems if and when I meet them,I test nothing
 
You don't have to be a scheme member to do EICR nor do you need qualifications ..... Those are the facts.... Not that the NICEIC will admit this

Regarding the lighting circuits not on rcds- what is the issue with this?
 
You would ideally need to assess the installation before changing a consumer unit to avoid being caught out by unanticipated faults on the circuits, but this can be a fairly limited inspect and test to ensure that say neutral earth faults are identified beforehand. So long as the IR is above 2Mohms then there should not be any problems. Where you have an unearthed lighting circuit then the obvious recommendation would be to earth the circuit, but this would be down to whether the customer is prepared to do this. If the circuit is not safe to reconnect then it should not be reinstated but the customer should be aware of this. Circuits should be safe to connect to the new consumer unit i.e no faults but that is all.
 
Unless a board change is of upmost urgency I would not change it if the lighting does not incorporate cpcs and the client is not willing to fork out for a rewire.
 
As a minimum before a CU change, I would do an IR test and check for bonding. If all came back OK, I would then make the customer aware that any issues found during/after the CU change, would cost extra to sort out. It is a fine line between doing some testing for a quote and spending hours testing and not getting the job anyway.

And as said above, the readings you get during the initial testing, if OK, can be used on your EIC.

Jay
 
OP don't know if you've read this document;
http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/mediafile/100423440/Best-Practice-Guide-1-Issue-3-.pdf
Gives some views, as well as asking members here. I don't think there is a default way to approach domestic CU changes, in the same manner each time. A fairly large property with many circuits, perhaps might warrant carrying out an EICR, or comprehensive inspection prior to change. Whereas a small property with only a few circuits, might just warrant some minor checks prior to. In both cases, I would do something, as its too late with the old one gone, and the new dual RCD CU on the wall, and the rcd's tripping away.

I make it clear to my customers that, the price doesn't include rectifying existing faults, and is also in my T&C's.

With lighting circuits with no cpc, and the customer does not want to rectify, I would personally take on the CU replacement.

R1+R2 testing; I do where practical, sockets, pendants, switches etc. But not where it requires removing luminaires for example, or the security light at the gable end apex.
 
IMHO changing a CU from BS 3036 fuses to one with MCB/RCD's will make the installation safer - CPC in lighting circuit or not....
 
Rcds may give improvement but replacing 3036 fuses with mcbs doesn't particularly make it safer.
 
I knew the fuse tampering would come but they offer compliant circuit protection but I agree with the rcd aspect.
 
Lots of questions in the OP.

Starting at the top...

Prices vary massively for CU changes have seen quotes from £250 upto £500. You should charge what you know is suitable for your day rate if you know it's going to take a day. That being said I find CU changes are normally less than a day with testing after and the materials aren't the most expensive so it's normally well paid for it too stressful a job.

As a personal choice I like the high integrity 2+5+5 boards, gives scope to go none RCD which can be a necessity at times (garage supplies (swa) and the like).

As for testing, you'll get quicker with practise. Yes remove all the loads etc including neons but don't chase the perfect result, just record what you find. If it's below acceptable then I spend a little time double checking I haven't missed something, but not too long that it becomes a new job in itself. I see that you say you are not allowed to produce EICRs, though any qualified electrician can do that, even with out 2395, although the bodies frown upon it. I'm with NaPiT and they insist on both testing courses but I'd happily produce an EICR without a professional body. Only need them for part P really. Just make sure you have professional indemnity insurance.
I don't test before changing a CU, would take just as long as looking to do a quick rectification after the change. Though I do have a quick visual inspection on all the usual items. If they have a major issue then we can deal with that after. That's where some trust comes in.
 
I usually make a decision whilst looking at the job whether I will IR Neutral to E before quoting and checking Lighting CPCs, it depends on how old and ropy it looks.

When I start the job I make a list of every circuit and mark them if necessary. I turn everything off and then turn each circuit on one by one and identify whats on each circuit. I carry out all dead tests before I've removed the old board just in case there are any problems. If all is good then I swap the board and carry out live tests last.
 

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