German Market Lorry Incident

[Darkwood]

The biggest Irony here is and to any outsider reading about this the fact that Tony Blair became the Middle East Peace Envoy ... seriously you couldn't make it up if you tried

It's like letting the rapist counsel the rape victim

 

[buzzlightyear]

this what's happens when let the jinnee out of the bottle.

 

[Octopus]

I know this will irritate many people BUT at the least people in Germany, who live there, or arrive as migrants HAVE to be registered with the Police AND carry ID cards.... many European countries have ID cards

I would have no problem having one - so if the UK Government want to introduce one, bring it on....

 

[7029 dave]

Agree with Darkwood getting rid of Sadam was a big mistake yes he indiscriminately waved his big stick of fear at his people and they were rightly scared. It kept all the factions underground and in some sort of harmony to live together. Now without the big stick they do as they like.

He did keep the dogs at bay.

 

[Wilko]

Sorry to say, but respect for living creatures is not high in the world, and that has far reaching consequences in every walk

 

[EoinConway]

Don't forget here, in a sense we brought this on ourselves, the rise of ISIS is down to our own and American foreign policy and the Iraq war in which we created a void that birthed ISIS with a envy of the west, hate what is happening all you want but we are only reaping what we sowed here, this is what happens when you brown nose America and get pulled
into a war under a false flag just so they can maintain world economic dominance with the Petrodollar been the currency of choice for oil trade.

We need to blame the governments of the day for the attrocities we now see on our own soil, yes it has always happened in Islamic states as the main Muslims factions fight each other but we dipped our toe into something bigger than all our nations and that is an Ideology ... this will not be something that will go away anytime soon as we are still active and interfering in the likes of Syria etc.

The Chilcot report exposes alot and shows we should have never been there in the first place yet Blair is still walking around smiling while his legacy is murdering innocent people in European countries.

Darkwood, what in your opinion, would you say plays more of a role in the rise of ISIS; us 'bringing it on ourselves' or the Quran?

 

[Marvo]

The Quran has been around for centuries, the Islamic linked terrorist attacks have only been prolific for the last few years....

 

[EoinConway]

The Quran has been around for centuries, the Islamic linked terrorist attacks have only been prolific for the last few years....

So would you say it and it's content has nothing to do with it Marvo? Would you agree with Darkwood that the West brought this on themselves?

I'm not meaning to be antagonistic, just interested as it had not been mentioned in the thread until that point.

 

[Pete999]

Darkwood, what in your opinion, would you say plays more of a role in the rise of ISIS; us 'bringing it on ourselves' or the Quran?

If I can jump in, to answer your question George Bush both of em and of course Tony B sorry Darkwood over to you.

 

[EoinConway]

If I can jump in, to answer your question George Bush both of em and of course Tony B sorry Darkwood over to you.

They must have been taking Kenny Everett seriously Peter, imagine.

 

[Barry White]

The terrorist war has been smouldering forever. under the guise of the quran. They were at war with each other.
We should have left them alone to war amongst themselves. But now its all about money and oil.
Isis too are after money oil and power using the quran as a smoke screen.
So in my opinion a swarm of angry wasps around a hive has had a brick thrown at them. Everyone knows you can't help angry wasps you leave them be and they will eventually calm. The west thought it could and how wrong they were.
Saddam was portrayed to the world as the west wanted us to see him. I don't think he was a good man but was the right man to keep the country from simmering over. He definitely did a better job than we are now.
I don't know the way forward if I did I would say.

 

[Andy78]

So would you say it and it's content has nothing to do with it Marvo? Would you agree with Darkwood that the West brought this on themselves?

I'm not meaning to be antagonistic, just interested as it had not been mentioned in the thread until that point.

I would say interpretation of its content and the dwelling on certain aspects of its content is more to blame than the content itself. There is horrific war mongering murderous content in the bible too that is largely ignored.
The Quran is full of contradictions as is the bible. They both have wisdom, they both have nonsense, they both have parts that can be exploited to justify terrible things.
I don't draw any distinction between a Muslim hate preacher telling a group of people that infidels must be murdered, and GW Bush telling his nation that God told him to invade Iraq. The only similarity being that only morons woulds buy into either argument.

Awful people exploit religious texts in their pursuit of being awful, much the same as people exploit rules and laws to their own gain.

 

[Pete999]

A

I would say interpretation of its content and the dwelling on certain aspects of its content is more to blame than the content itself. There is horrific war mongering murderous content in the bible too that is largely ignored.
The Quran is full of contradictions as is the bible. They both have wisdom, they both have nonsense, they both have parts that can be exploited to justify terrible things.
I don't draw any distinction between a Muslim hate preacher telling a group of people that infidels must be murdered, and GW Bush telling his nation that God told him to invade Iraq. The only similarity being that only morons woulds buy into either argument.

Awful people exploit religious texts in their pursuit of being awful, much the same as people exploit rules and laws to their own gain.

Andy, how right you are,

 

[Barry White]

So would you say it and it's content has nothing to do with it Marvo? Would you agree with Darkwood that the West brought this on themselves?

I'm not meaning to be antagonistic, just interested as it had not been mentioned in the thread until that point.

As most agree the bible and the quran have passages in them that were for different times or people or have been interpreted wrong.
Have a look at the Christian ways of the past how civilised we were then.Crusades - Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

Religion is used by the powerfull to control the masses. In the modern world they use tv and media to brainwash us.

 

[Andy78]

Just to clarify my last point and better answer Eion's post.

There are hundreds of millions of people that manage to extract and accept useful, wise, peaceful teachings from both the Quran and the Bible, amongst other religious texts.
The people that seek to exploit the worst parts of religion are always the few, and one cannot attribute this exploitation to any group of people, either ethnically or otherwise, as a generalisation.

 

[Darkwood]

As has just been pointed out, most religious scripture regardless of what religion we look at has some form of encouragement to hate or harm others just because of their beliefs or sexuality so you cannot point the finger solely at the qur'an and it's content, there has to be other underlying driving forces and when it comes to Islam this tends to be a internal argument of the interpretation of what the qur'an actually means hence the massive divides that has been happening for thousands of years between shia and sunny Muslims... now I'm no expert here but when you step into a thousand year war of ideology with a few billion Muslims then regardless where in the world they live and regardless of them not directly effected by the invasion of Iraq or Syria for that matter, they see you as the enemy as you have declared holy war on their way of interpreting Islam hence many terrorists are home grown ... the issues with Islam and it's followers has always existed .. where we messed up was by taking sides in our foreign policy actions. This in my mind is Bush and Blairs legacy which has invited terror to the west a crime I believe they should both be answering for.

 

[Diddy]

It all went downhill after the people's judean front split and formed the peoples front of judea......bloody splitters !!!

 

[Diddy]

For the more serious points raised I also agree with Darkwood. We did bring this on ourselves. Well our leaders did on our behalf most probably assisted by a whole bunch of different agencies with different vested interest.
I really don't think we can deny what our involvement direct or otherwise has done and continues to do each and every day. We installed Saddam when he was our friend lol. we assisted him in taking power. We "trained" Osama Bin Laden and HIS crew to further our "interests" in the middle east. We assisted those who tried to overthrow Assad.....shame they turned to ISIS when "liberated". We also assisted the arab spring uprising in various other countries.....Willing the toppling of Gadaffi.....not long after we were meeting the man in his tent and doing deals with him....
I always think of how I would feel in their situation if I was say a spark who lived and worked in say Baghdad or Tripoli ect....I mean these places had harsh regimes but had electricity, running water, healthcare, education ect ect ect, Im not so sure I would be overly impressed by the west's "help".
There is a huge case in all of the above to answer the charge of "You broke it so YOU fix it". Maybe WE are far too easy on our own leaders as ultimately it will be us who pay the price in blood and treasure to right any wrongs.

 

[Barry White]

Seems they have found the man they were looking for. He was shot dead see Berlin attack suspect shot dead in Italy - http://news.sky.com/story/berlin-attack-suspect-shot-dead-in-italy-minister-confirms-10705730

more here including a video pledge to isis

Berlin attacker filmed video pledge to IS - http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/berlin-attacker-filmed-video-pledge-to-is/ar-BBxuCpk?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=iehp

 

[Octopus]

They could only identify him because of his German ID card!