Grade A... fire detection/ domestic property !?

[sythai]

Hi Guys

Recently finished a new build house, 2 levels/ 5 bed.
Wired AICO grade D LD2 system throughout.

LABC has come to sign off saying needs to be grade A system.
Havent got full details, just to chatted to builder (owner of property) on phone.

Did only think this was required on a domestic property when 3 levels+ and/ or HMO ?

Can someone help on this please ?

Thanks Sy

 

[westward10]

Sounds odd hopefully someone has crossed wires because a Grade A LD2 system will require a Part 1 control panel.

 

[buzzlightyear]

A BS5839 Grade A LD2 Fire Alarm System are usually requested in buildings of 3 storeys and over in size. The fire alarm system would require a main fire alarm …

 

[sythai]

just got bit more info..... when footprint is >200sq meters then also grade A required.
This place is right on the limit of 200sq meters ! and we have pretty unhelpful labc inspector, which doesn't help things

 

[Dustydazzler]

On big new builds we did Grade A systems and used Red FP just to make sure we covered our arses

 

[littlespark]

Was an architect involved with this build? (sounding by the size of it, there should have been)

They should have known.... they get paid enough

 

[sythai]

Was an architect involved with this build? (sounding by the size of it, there should have been)

They should have known.... they get paid enough

Sure was…. Builder has now gone back to him.
Would have been helpful if LABC maybe brought this up on one of their site visits during 1st fix.

 

[littlespark]

So what’s the solution? Does it have to be hard wired? Running cable surface? That’s going to look good in a finished build.

Is there a battery solution that can be used?

Hopefully the LABC are mistaken, but it’s going to be an uphill struggle to get them to admit it.

 

[sythai]

So what’s the solution? Does it have to be hard wired? Running cable surface? That’s going to look good in a finished build.

Is there a battery solution that can be used?

Hopefully the LABC are mistaken, but it’s going to be an uphill struggle to get them to admit it.

We've spoken to 'fire alarm co.' we use from time to time...... there is a wireless system that would do it and comply with LABC.
Will be pricey though !! Better than pulling £1.5million new build apart to hard wire (which isn't a conventional layout by any means)

Next step is back to LABC to try and negotiate, over to the Architect/ Builder

 

[Midwest]

I might be wrong, but I thought grade A systems were for commercial properties & domestic properties over three levels?

 

[buzzlightyear]

Next step is back to LABC to try and negotiate, over to the Architect/ Builder

It should be on the plans.

 

[littlespark]

That’s what I mean about an architect.

If it was on the drawing to begin with, then someone on site isn’t reading the plans….
If it was passed by LABC without being in the plans, then LABC hasn’t read them.

 

[sythai]

That’s what I mean about an architect.

If it was on the drawing to begin with, then someone on site isn’t reading the plans….
If it was passed by LABC without being in the plans, then LABC hasn’t read them.

wasn't stated on plans for this one.
footprint was 202m/sq... just over !

 

[buzzlightyear]

wasn't stated on plans for this one.
footprint was 202m/sq... just over

Then it should be asked.

 

[sythai]

Does this just apply to new builds… or do same regs apply for a refurb also above 200 sq/meters? Thanks Sy

 

[suffolkspark]

Does this just apply to new builds… or do same regs apply for a refurb also above 200 sq/meters? Thanks Sy

The rule must have been in place for some time, i remember coming across it on a farm house refurb with extension 15 years ago, property was only 2 floor house, but about 250 sqm so required a grade A system. Be interesting to see if its the architects fault or labc if it was or wasnt on the plans

 

[Midwest]

Perhaps the answer would be to reduce the floor space by 2.5 sq m.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Perhaps the answer would be to reduce the floor

What take the roof off, open house.

 

[SJD]

Perhaps the answer would be to reduce the floor space by 2.5 sq m.

On a 200m2 building, if the walls are for example dot/dab plasterboard, it would not be out of the question that you could have lost 2.5m2 due to the rooms being the odd cm less than designed.

 

[brianmoooore]

Must admit, this one's new to me, and I've worked on loads of domestic properties over 200m2, mostly refurbs, but some new. It's not that big, when you're considering farm houses.

 

[Midwest]

What take the roof off, open house.

Extend a stud wall, or three.

 

[brianmoooore]

Does the 200m2 refer to habitable area only?

 

[sythai]

Does the 200m2 refer to habitable area only?

Thats correct

 

[sythai]

Extend a stud wall, or three.

Nice one.... just mentioned this builder, he has nice large bedroom not fully finished yet which could stud a section off to 'make un-habitable'

Could actually come to this !!

 

[Dustydazzler]

This is why Regs are such a joke

If they want things done , then make it clear what they want doing

 

[brianmoooore]

Thats correct

Thought so. Just one walk in wardrobe away from compliance, then.

 

[littlespark]

Wouldn’t be difficult to build a fake wall over a walk in wardrobe or something…. Wood frame, plasterboard… painted to match. And a lovely family portrait hanging… get it passed, then take it away.

 

[brianmoooore]

Bit like the internal door building control wouldn't allow in my last barn conversion. Light switches in place both sides, lintel in place, and boarded across the opening both sides.
Wardrobe isn't habitable area anyway, AFAIK.

 

[sythai]

….. so outcome was!

Architect got on the case and floor space was recalculated using a ‘net’ value which subtracts all the internal walls. This brought it in under the 200msq

And all fine with grade D/ LD2.

Good news for everyone involved

(Existing LABC causing grief on all fronts has also been given the boot and new private BC brought in.)

 

[littlespark]

Who would’ve thunk it?
The inside of a wall isn’t habitable space ???