Joining cables behind plaster

[mmax6870]

Hi All,

Can anyone throw some light on best practice for extending cables, which will be buried within plaster?

For example: If a SSO is mounted halfway down a wall and a customer requires it to be lower (in-line with other sockets in the room), what is the preferred method in completing this with minimal disruption?

I would say, where possible, pull out existing cable/s up to ceiling void, fit JB and install new longer cable to desired location. However, what should be done if you cannot get access to the ceiling void?

I have not been able to find any definative answer which meets all regs.

Just completing yr 2 level 2 of C&G2330 so I am trying to get little issues like this resolved before I get out to do my NVQ L3. Any help would be most appreciated.

Cheers

 

[darrell9721]

Hi well to comply any joint has to be accessible so if you put Jb on it has to have an access hatch to it.
You could use either solder joints or crimps and heat shrink and tape where existing is and then they can be berried. But you should then have it tested as it is minor works and you may have to put a RCD on if there is not one.
Hope this helps

 

[Jason Smith]

All jbs now have to be accesible, so under a floor board, and under the carpets that cover them, are not. Ashley have bought out a jb that has no maintainable parts ,(push fit not screw fit ) clamped entry points for cables etc. I maintain that these can actually now be plastered into a wall because they have no maintainance issues. I will research this. Old method mate is to sink in a back box, crimp wires in the back box, and then fit blank double/single surface plate to back box. looks smart and job done. wire from there to whatever final accesorie youwant subject of course to wiring routes.

 

[bugsy]

Firstly are your sure they drop from the ceiling,
Secondly I would personally never join a cable that was going to be buried in plaster or cement, however thats not to say it cannot be done and be compliant, crimp the cables using a decent correct size crimp and correct crimping tool this connection should then be encapsulated with heat shrink. and tested

 

[wattsup]

Hard drawn should not be crimped...i don't give a **** what the regs say. Never crimp hard drawn cables. Use connectors, wrap in plastic bag and tape. Much better than crimping hard drawn cable

 

[mmax6870]

Thanks guys

It is interesting that there is no definative reg on this, as I am sure it crops up loads. (The example I gave was simply a possible situation I may be faced with at some point).

Jason, I am very interested in the Ashley JB you mentioned and would be grateful of more info if you have any. Also, if JB's are no longer allowed to be positioned where they are not accessible, are there any other suppliers that offer neat solutions?

Interestingly my tutor at college says he would never crimp hard drawn cable either but use a connector instead. I suppose the down side to that is, it would be significantly larger and therefore require deeper recess to plaster over (should you decide to).

It would be good to hear what NIC, Elesca etc have to say on this issue.

Thanks again for your help and I will post again, if I receive 'official' guidelines!

Cheers

 

[bugsy]

Wago connectors if you have to use a junction box

 

[dufjax]

Thanks guys

It is interesting that there is no definative reg on this, as I am sure it crops up loads. (The example I gave was simply a possible situation I may be faced with at some point).

Jason, I am very interested in the Ashley JB you mentioned and would be grateful of more info if you have any. Also, if JB's are no longer allowed to be positioned where they are not accessible, are there any other suppliers that offer neat solutions?

Interestingly my tutor at college says he would never crimp hard drawn cable either but use a connector instead. I suppose the down side to that is, it would be significantly larger and therefore require deeper recess to plaster over (should you decide to).

It would be good to hear what NIC, Elesca etc have to say on this issue.

Thanks again for your help and I will post again, if I receive 'official' guidelines!

Cheers

Ashley JB
Ashley J804 Maintenance Free Junction Box 20A 4 Terminal


And as bugsy said Wago are brilliant although you can have problems finding a wholesaler that stocks them. (Unless the suppliers are getting the hint?)

Jim

 

[Jason Smith]

CEF do, and they have branches everywhere. Ashley also produce very usefull guides to the regs etc, in the form of small booklets. To answer the non accesable jb issue with downlighters, MB produce some long and thin ones that can be drawn down a downlighter hole, therfore making them accesible. Again stocked by CEF.
Must admit been around electricians etc for a long time, but never heard the term Hard drawn cable, may be a local thing, or I have just missed it. So help !! whats it mean. I guess it refers to a cable with no slack left in it, plastered in etc, one chance at getting it right !?

I certainly wouldnt put any form of a join in a cable then plaster that in, i would be happy to make the join but I would put in an enclosure.

 

[dufjax]

CEF do, and they have branches everywhere. Ashley also produce very usefull guides to the regs etc, in the form of small booklets. To answer the non accesable jb issue with downlighters, MB produce some long and thin ones that can be drawn down a downlighter hole, therfore making them accesible. Again stocked by CEF.
Must admit been around electricians etc for a long time, but never heard the term Hard drawn cable, may be a local thing, or I have just missed it. So help !! whats it mean. I guess it refers to a cable with no slack left in it, plastered in etc, one chance at getting it right !?

I certainly wouldnt put any form of a join in a cable then plaster that in, i would be happy to make the join but I would put in an enclosure.

CEF didn't last time I asked in my local branch.. But there again they don't know what day of the week it is most of the time.
One of them looks like the guy who played the jester in rent a ghost and the other one looks like the bloke who was Ricky Gervais' manger in extras


Jim

 

[pennywise]

I had to order my wago's in with Eds they took a week to come in!!.

Wago make the block in the center of the new Asheley 20A and 30A box's but why oh why can't they mould the lever ones into the 16A box it would make it the ultimate JB for downlights.

 

[Jason Smith]

I will find out if a compliant maintenace free JB can be plastered in. After all, they are allowed into inaccesable places. I wont be seeing anyone who can give an official answer untill march, We do need something that can be plastered in, time honoured methods, blank face plate with connections behind etc are usually fine, especially if the customer knows there is no other way, however, On a recent occasion I was asked to install a extension to a cooker circuit because the exisiting connection was to high up on the wall and the cooker installers wouldnt install because the connection unit was in the high temperature zone at the back of the oven. I had to drop to less than 150 mill off the floor. It is extended from a connection behind a recessed back box and flush blank face plate. A JB that I could plaster over over here would of been brill.

 

[robsparky1975]

I had to order my wago's in with Eds they took a week to come in!!.

Wago make the block in the center of the new Asheley 20A and 30A box's but why oh why can't they mould the lever ones into the 16A box it would make it the ultimate JB for downlights.

must agree about j501s ive got 60-80 downlights to install my fingers are gonna be knackered by end of job lol.

 

[pennywise]

Must admit with the 20A ones I take the push fit block out and do the jointing with Wago lever connectors

Try the wagobox they may save you hands.

 

[Notsosmart]

I will find out if a compliant maintenace free JB can be plastered in. After all, they are allowed into inaccesable places. I wont be seeing anyone who can give an official answer untill march, We do need something that can be plastered in, time honoured methods, blank face plate with connections behind etc are usually fine, especially if the customer knows there is no other way, however, On a recent occasion I was asked to install a extension to a cooker circuit because the exisiting connection was to high up on the wall and the cooker installers wouldnt install because the connection unit was in the high temperature zone at the back of the oven. I had to drop to less than 150 mill off the floor. It is extended from a connection behind a recessed back box and flush blank face plate. A JB that I could plaster over over here would of been brill.

Alternatively if there is a wall cupboard above why not pull the cable back above this & install a JB there ~ JB's hidden yet accessable & no nasty joints within plastered walls.

 

[billy110]

I too am a Wago box fan and get them from CEF, always in stock. Speed install times up, kinder to the cable and generally tidies up the job.

 

[Jason Smith]

Am off to CEF to findout what a wago box is.

 

[pennywise]

A wagobox

Junction Box

 

[lister]

ask your nic man, he is more then happy with solder, heatshrink then plaster in. happy days.

 

[Jason Smith]

Pennywise and Lister thanks, knowledge = happy no stress. Cant get your link to work pennywise still gotta pick up bits from cef in the morning so will ask them to save you going to any more trouble mate.