Metal consumer unit advice please.

[BlueToBits]

Hello again! it's been a while.....
I'm no longer in the business and I'm getting some building work done at home which involves a sub-distribution board / consumer unit in an attached workshop. Before anyone gets the hump, I'm no longer approved so I'm making other arrangements for the work to be done, but I'm sourcing the kit. I'm looking for a compliant flush board (plasterboard) with individual RCBO protected final circuits
I've not come across amendment 3 until very recently and even after reading numerous comments in this and other forums, I just don't get it. Please can someone clarify:

1. The metal clad consumer units with a plastic MCB "Doors" (eg Contactum CP metal) do not conform, even if the MCBs are thermosetting plastic? (are MCBs not fire-resistant anyhow?)
2. Parts of a consumer unit that may be "flushed" into a plastered or plaster-boarded wall conform by the fact that plaster is already "fire resistant"?
3. In flush CU installations, the combustible timber studs forming part of the plasterboarded wall conform as part of the fire resistant enclosure?
4. Cables may be enclosed in trunking to "seal" gaps in knock-outs in the enclosure, yet the trunking may be combustible thermoplastic PVC?
5. Cable insulation entering the enclosure may be combustible thermoplastic PVC?

Sorry if these questions have been answered elsewhere, I haven't found them. Thanks for reading.

 

[Octopus]

Any customer who tries to tell me what to use, and how to use it doesn't get a quote off me.....

 

[Midwest]

Hello again! it's been a while.....
I'm no longer in the business and I'm getting some building work done at home which involves a sub-distribution board / consumer unit in an attached workshop. Before anyone gets the hump, I'm no longer approved so I'm making other arrangements for the work to be done, but I'm sourcing the kit. I'm looking for a compliant flush board (plasterboard) with individual RCBO protected final circuits
I've not come across amendment 3 until very recently and even after reading numerous comments in this and other forums, I just don't get it. Please can someone clarify:

1. The metal clad consumer units with a plastic MCB "Doors" (eg Contactum CP metal) do not conform, even if the MCBs are thermosetting plastic? (are MCBs not fire-resistant anyhow?)
2. Parts of a consumer unit that may be "flushed" into a plastered or plaster-boarded wall conform by the fact that plaster is already "fire resistant"?
3. In flush CU installations, the combustible timber studs forming part of the plasterboarded wall conform as part of the fire resistant enclosure?
4. Cables may be enclosed in trunking to "seal" gaps in knock-outs in the enclosure, yet the trunking may be combustible thermoplastic PVC?
5. Cable insulation entering the enclosure may be combustible thermoplastic PVC?

Sorry if these questions have been answered elsewhere, I haven't found them. Thanks for reading.

Think if you look at any of the major manufacturers web sites, they would answer most of your questions. You'll excuse us for being a bit suspicious, but questions you ask, seem a requisite for an installers guide?

 

[tomspark93]

If you buy a mainstream branded unit they tend to market them as amd3 compliant anyway so you won't go far wrong.

 

[sparksburnout]

If you are no longer in the business, and obviously don't know much about AMD3, why don't you just leave it to the sparky you are using? Glad it ain't me........

 

[BlueToBits]

Such useful help from you all. Thank you ever-so much.
My joiner wants to know how far back to set a couple of noggins into the studwork for the CU. To do this I need to know the consumer unit dimensions. The Contactum catalog implies that the CP and flush plate may now not be compliant and other sparks I know haven't fitted a flush board since AMD3 and haven't yet investigated all of the implications, so I started to investigate myself. It's not my fault that I have been an electrician for 40 years. I'm not hiding the fact. Am I supposed to keep this a secret and pretend the last 40 years didn't happen? Am I supposed to say nothing to the electrician I use if he installs what would seem to be a non-compliant board?
I bet if I posted a picture of a non compliant board there would be plenty of comments like "Sue the idiot who installed that." "Don't pay him", "get a proper spark in" "You should have come on this forum and asked first", and chapter and verse on regulation and requirement breaches.
Is sparksburnout scared of working for someone who may recognise shoddy or incompetent workmanship when they see it, and then dare to complain?
Is this not a forum for informed advice, help and technical discussion in the interests of electrical safety, or is for mutual back patting put downs of those who dare to ask a question?
Some of us may be old, but that doesn't make us stupid. It's only in the last few years the incidence of consumer unit fires has increased by around 400%. At first impression, it seems the IEEE have little faith in the capability of today's electricians in properly terminating 25mm cables. The joke of it is, the regs don't seem to try to prevent the fires, they just contain them until the fire brigade get there. It's saying "We know you can't do the job properly so just carry on and let the expert firemen put out the fires we know you are going to cause".
From the outside, and again, on first impressions only, it seems ridiculous that the domestic installers who install these boards are happy to accept what appears to be a somewhat insulting requirement. So far, no one has read between the lines of my initial post and come up with anything that would make me suspect that my first impression has not hit the nail on the head. I could rant on further, but what's the point?

 

[Spoon]

Some of us may be old, but that doesn't make us stupid. It's only in the last few years the incidence of consumer unit fires has increased by around 400%. At first impression, it seems the IEEE have little faith in the capability of today's electricians in properly terminating 25mm cables. The joke of it is, the regs don't seem to try to prevent the fires, they just contain them until the fire brigade get there. It's saying "We know you can't do the job properly so just carry on and let the expert firemen put out the fires we know you are going to cause".
From the outside, and again, on first impressions only, it seems ridiculous that the domestic installers who install these boards are happy to accept what appears to be a somewhat insulting requirement. So far, no one has read between the lines of my initial post and come up with anything that would make me suspect that my first impression has not hit the nail on the head. I could rant on further, but what's the point?

We all see that the idea of just containing a fire rather than preventing one is wrong. It's all about money though. When it comes to money the people in charge don't really are about safety. People should be properly trained, which takes time. Time costs money. In training it's better to get people in, take their money, then get them out again as quick as possible.

 

[Paul.M]

OK, this thread has been reported by a member that has not posted on it, thanks Mr X.


Can we try and keep it civil for the OP with 40 years under his belt that is no longer up to date with the new(ish) AMD3 Regs?

He is having electrical works done on his house and is asking a few questions! Please respect his time in the industry and the questions he is asking.

 

[mattg4321]

Design 10 Design Range of Consumer Units

Scroll down to flush boards. This would be my choice.

Maybe VMLF114 if you're going all RCBO. Obviously discuss with the sparks doing the work though.

I've not fitted one yet but I read somewhere the enclosure base is adjustable even after plastering, so you can make sure the MCB's protrude from the wall the correct amount. Sounds good to me. This is always my pet hate with flush boards.

 

[Midwest]

OK, this thread has been reported by a member that has not posted on it, thanks Mr X.


Can we try and keep it civil for the OP with 40 years under his belt that is no longer up to date with the new(ish) AMD3 Regs?

He is having electrical works done on his house and is asking a few questions! Please respect his time in the industry and the questions he is asking.

I don't understand the issue. Either the OP is competent to carry out the work himself, or he should employ the services of an a suitable electrician.

I have changed the spark plugs & oil filter in many of my first cars I owned. Now with my modern ECU controlled eco engine, I just drop the thing off my local garage.

 

[telectrix]

I don't understand the issue. Either the OP is competent to carry out the work himself, or he should employ the services of an a suitable electrician.

I have changed the spark plugs & oil filter in many of my first cars I owned. Now with my modern ECU controlled eco engine, I just drop the thing off my local garage.

it's quite possible that the OP has the knowledge to do the work himself, but being out of the domestic scene, prefers to employ a part pee (sob, cringe,Electrical Trainee with niceic subs.) in order to get a completion cert from BC.

 

[LankyWill]

Mk do flush fuseboards, dont fit their rcbo's though as their on recall. Seen a new schnieder fuseboard in Pro Electrician the other day, looked smart if you can compromise. As for the noggins, just put a large piece of ply either side and cut a slot for the cable entry. Spark could then multitool out what he needs. Just a thought if your pushed for time

 

[sparksburnout]

Tho OP obviously has it in for "modern" "DIS", so does it not beg the question as to why, with all his experience, he is asking questions on here? If fire containment is such a massive issue why is he flush installing it into a timber stud wall??
And no, I am not at all worried about working for anyone, actually. I was merely suggesting that, as has been said, he either has the experience to do the job himself (I am sure he won't be overly worried about BC notification), or he should just let a another spark get on with it. We are not all useless "DI's".

 

[davesparks]

Generally speaking the difference between a flush board and a surface one is usually no more than a wider fitting lid or a flange/collar of some sort.

There's nothing different in the actual board, so no different to mounting a standard board flush with a bead of caulk instead of the collar

 

[Spoon]

Mk do flush fuseboards, dont fit their rcbo's though as their on recall. Seen a new schnieder fuseboard in Pro Electrician the other day, looked smart if you can compromise. As for the noggins, just put a large piece of ply either side and cut a slot for the cable entry. Spark could then multitool out what he needs. Just a thought if your pushed for time

I thought I read in some post on here that you should only fit the same make of breakers/rcbo's as the CU. Does it invalidate the warranty or something....?

 

[Octopus]

I thought I read in some post on here that you should only fit the same make of breakers/rcbo's as the CU. Does it invalidate the warranty or something....?

A mute point if there ever was one!

A new CU with 3rd party breakers - that's not good workmanship IMHO.

 

[tomspark93]

The majority of "deals" on boards are fully loaded anyway so what's the need to use different breakers?

 

[Spoon]

The majority of "deals" on boards are fully loaded anyway so what's the need to use different breakers?

I was asking the question with regards to post 12. Also when replacing equipment in CU's.

 

[Paul.M]

I don't understand the issue. Either the OP is competent to carry out the work himself, or he should employ the services of an a suitable electrician.

The answer to your question is in the first post:-

"I'm no longer in the business and I'm getting some building work done at home which involves a sub-distribution board / consumer unit in an attached workshop. Before anyone gets the hump, I'm no longer approved so I'm making other arrangements for the work to be done, but I'm sourcing the kit."


"Not compitent!!!! eeeerrrmmmm???? After 40 years in the game, just let him enjoy retirement from the game & let others do the work on his home whilst checking out the latest Regs & amendments on here which is full of helpful/up to date people!!!! As for the Spark? He will be suby for the builder and this is what the OP is asking about.


Cant really see your point of your post????? Post up or PM me if you want to reply.

 

[Midwest]

I'm not disparaging the OP in particular, and respect his 40 years experience as an electrician.

But I would suggest his experience does not extend to this particular work. I have read on here and other forums (and not just electrical work), where people ask quite searching questions, on the pretext that the work will be done by competent persons, where it fact they intend to do it themselves and are after guidance on how to proceed.

I may have that completely wrong in this particular instance, but others here seem to have formed the same suspicions from the OP's reply. The OP hasn't replied since being questioned as such, so the suspicions may have some foundation,

If I was in a similar situation, however tempting and indeed satisfying it would be to carry out the work in my own property, I think I would leave all the supply and installation to someone who is competent to do the work. If I couldn't resist the temptation, I would be honest enough to state my intentions & seek advice from members here, and be prepared to suffer censure. It is of no particular criticism of the OP here, but just because he is an electrician of 40 years service, we should not be afraid to recommend the same, as we would do to someone else who is not competent.

I hope the OP has his consumer unit installed in his workshop satisfactorily, and enjoys his retirement.