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What size motor is the starter protecting? looks like the purple wire is a short to remove the overload contacts from the circuit. Possibly the overload was set too weak or it has failed. The coil voltage is usually written on the coil of this unit.
IE The motor has overloaded and the overload would not reset or it was set too low causing constant overloading. Therefore somebody "fixed it" in a dangerous way by adding the purple link.
Please check the motor size to see what the full load amps are or post a photo of the plate.

ps did you notice the nipped cable?

View attachment 34879
I have had a good look at the motor but there is no plate or information on it. I was told it had been rewound recently to single phase (at vast expense). The motor is big! 25cm across!

I have installed another starter switch, I had in stock. A normal single phase unit, the same as on my single phase four post car lift. But the lathe will not run using that switch. So I don't know.
 
Can you link me to the lathe on ebay or if its not there now give me the lathe details. There may be a plate on the lathe?

Are you running this on a 13A plug top?
 
Can you link me to the lathe on ebay or if its not there now give me the lathe details. There may be a plate on the lathe?

Are you running this on a 13A plug top?

In France we do not have fused plugs, just individual circuits for each socket. This circuit is fixed at 16 amps and does not seemed bothered by the load. The lathe is a 1940 Colchester Master. I will take some photos a bit later this evening.
 
In France we do not have fused plugs, just individual circuits for each socket. This circuit is fixed at 16 amps and does not seemed bothered by the load. The lathe is a 1940 Colchester Master. I will take some photos a bit later this evening.
mykey: photos as promised. When advertised on eBay she did look rough. I have since serviced it, given it a coat of paint and plenty of oil in the right places. It's just that starter switch that I would like to get right.

Newlec starter switch wiring Colchester Master 1940 - EletriciansForums.net

Newlec starter switch wiring Colchester motor - EletriciansForums.net
 
Whithout a motor plate you are kinda buggered tbh, as its been rewound it may be a idea to try trace the company that did it and see if they can tell you its rating etc, if you cannot trace this then see if the motor has a thermal trip or thermistor in it and ensure you use this as a backup protection .. if we were to assume the old overload was rated for the motor when it was a 3ph then it may have been a 2.2kw or a 3kw judging by the range on it, if this was rewind to a single phase then we could expect it to be rated the same but the current will be approx x3 so we would be looking at a 6.5 - 9amp FLC rating ... running the machine and clamping it in its heaviest gear will give an idea where abouts we sit with the actual rating of the motor but again I stress we are making a guess based on a presumption. Your motor is required to be protected from overload so you need to achieve this somehow with protection design for motors.

You could always look up the original lathe 3ph motor rating and work it from there.
 
Whithout a motor plate you are kinda buggered tbh, as its been rewound it may be a idea to try trace the company that did it and see if they can tell you its rating etc, if you cannot trace this then see if the motor has a thermal trip or thermistor in it and ensure you use this as a backup protection .. if we were to assume the old overload was rated for the motor when it was a 3ph then it may have been a 2.2kw or a 3kw judging by the range on it, if this was rewind to a single phase then we could expect it to be rated the same but the current will be approx x3 so we would be looking at a 6.5 - 9amp FLC rating ... running the machine and clamping it in its heaviest gear will give an idea where abouts we sit with the actual rating of the motor but again I stress we are making a guess based on a presumption. Your motor is required to be protected from overload so you need to achieve this somehow with protection design for motors.

You could always look up the original lathe 3ph motor rating and work it from there.

I tracked down a users handbook for this model and it states " The standard motor is 1. 1/2 H.P. 2-phase or 3-phase, but D.C. and Single phase motors are fitted to order at extra cost..."

I am wondering if it might be better to start from scratch, buy a 1. 1/2 H.P. single phase motor and fit a new matching starter switch.
 
The coil must be the correct voltage due to it working, the problem appears to be in the stopping side of it!!

As is evident from my posts Lagentium, I am no expert, but that is what baffles me. The stopping side not working.

Darkwood, I will certainly contact Colchester lathes group. It was they that supplied me with the users manual. Nice people to deal with.
 
There should be a diagram attached for wiring a single phase motor through a contactor and over load. as you can see no purple wire, that's what is causing the stopping issue. As soon as you press start the contactor pulls in and a live feed via the purple wire then bypasses the stop button (and overload). It only stops when the isolator is turned off isolating the neutral side of the coil.

That's not much help with setting the overload, do you have access to a clamp meter ?

Newlec starter switch wiring Full-voltage-single-phase-motors - EletriciansForums.net
 
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The stop circuit won't work because it's wired wrong I can identify that by simply looking at it, crucially you need to know the motor full load current in order to set the overload correctly and as this info is missing it is why I suggested looking for a thermal sensor within the motor which could act as a backup if the motor is overloaded. I'm sure colchester will give you your options for you to ponder, as you say they are a good team and will help where possible.
 
Does the motor run as soon as the isolator is turned on? It looks like the switched side of the retaining circuit has a permanent supply to it, bypassing the actual start button also, what do you think Darkwood? Either way, it ain't good!! It could just be a misaligned overload or a knackered one too, I like the brown core that's trapped on the bottom left lid screw hole, tasty!
 
Does the motor run as soon as the isolator is turned on? It looks like the switched side of the retaining circuit has a permanent supply to it, bypassing the actual start button also, what do you think Darkwood? Either way, it ain't good!! It could just be a misaligned overload or a knackered one too, I like the brown core that's trapped on the bottom left lid screw hole, tasty!

One of the first questions I asked was regarding where the 2 cables come from that are connected to the overloads NC contact, his answer explains why the stop doesn't work, also the purple wire is permanant live unswitched and is on the 4th pole output and when the start button energises the contactor it makes a permanent link from live to A1 of the coil through the energised contactor pole and the fact its not in the stop circuit either will mean there are 2 reasons the stop doesn't work and for that matter, the overload too.
 
Hi Just got back from work and now able to see your pictures better on the PC. Your stop button is tied in with the over load so the diagram I posted earlier just needs the separate stop button ignoring.
 
Hi Just got back from work and now able to see your pictures better on the PC. Your stop button is tied in with the over load so the diagram I posted earlier just needs the separate stop button ignoring.
I think all in all, I will buy a new 1.1/2 H.P. motor and a matching starter switch. I totally agree with Darkwood. Without the correct information of the motor output it is just guessing! So I will bin the butchered starter.

Thanks again everyone for all your advice, it is really appreciated. - Tony
 
I think all in all, I will buy a new 1.1/2 H.P. motor and a matching starter switch. I totally agree with Darkwood. Without the correct information of the motor output it is just guessing! So I will bin the butchered starter.

Thanks again everyone for all your advice, it is really appreciated. - Tony


Good idea, make sure you let us know how you got on !
 
Can you beg steal or borrow an ac clamp meter and clamp the line (live) and get the maximum reading in amps whilst running and another whilst using the lathe with a heavy cut. Seems a shame to scrap a brook crompton motor that will run forever.
Ps that looks a cracking workshop you have.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Can you beg steal or borrow an ac clamp meter and clamp the line (live) and get the maximum reading in amps whilst running and another whilst using the lathe with a heavy cut. Seems a shame to scrap a brook crompton motor that will run forever.
Ps that looks a cracking workshop you have.

Don't worry mykey, I will find another use for that motor. The starter switch will be binned but I will find another use for the motor, not yet, but one day. I do hate throwing things away.

Yes, my workshop works very well. When we moved to France 16 years ago I said I was going to create a workshop just for me, from scratch. Thats what I did. In our barn I installed a new two post car lift and a second hand four post lift. Strangely, the two post lift is starting to play up. The single phase motor is starting to splutter when I use it. But that is for another cry for help on the forum at a later date.

Do have a Merry Christmas everyone!
 

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