no earth at socket

[Miketwinny]

in the picture theres no earth at the socket above the worktop, the earth is broken from the JB to the socket somewhere and is not accessable. can I run a single earth between the two sockets.its a 20 amp radial cct.

 

[telectrix]

as i read that diagram, the dotted line across the top is a T/E feed with a broken cpc.if that's the case, probably drilled/screwed when fitting cupboards. you don't know if the L and N are damaged. time to start digging.

 

[Dizzy_Maskell]

Yes have you done an IR test on the circuit, might be best look into all circuits in the kitchen to try to rule this out time to get the megger out

 

[Guest55]

any particular reason the 3 skts have been wired as a ring from the j.b. ?

 

[pjcomp]

But if it is a ring and there's no earth at the socket, the cpc must be broken both sides of the socket, or unconnected within the socket itself. Is there definitely earth at the sockets below the worktop? Is the disconnect in the junction box?

PJ

 

[SJD]

So can you disconnect the faulty cable at both the socket and the junction box, and insert a new cable where you have shown an earth cable? Assuming the junction box is accessible?

Or do the dotted lines mean the cables are all buried and inaccessible?

 

[Miketwinny]

its a 20amp 2.5mm2 T&E cct

 

[Miketwinny]

But if it is a ring and there's no earth at the socket, the cpc must be broken both sides of the socket, or unconnected within the socket itself. Is there definitely earth at the sockets below the worktop? Is the disconnect in the junction box?

PJ

theres earth continuity at the sockets below the worktop, the broken earth must be between the JB and socket above the worktop.

 

[Miketwinny]

So can you disconnect the faulty cable at both the socket and the junction box, and insert a new cable where you have shown an earth cable? Assuming the junction box is accessible?

Or do the dotted lines mean the cables are all buried and inaccessible?

there is a JB but dont know exact location and its not accessible

 

[Miketwinny]

can I leave the L & N connected and disconnect the broken CPC, then run a new CPC in 1.5mm2 earth cable from the bottom socket to the higher one..?

 

[telectrix]

that is probget the cupboards off and start digging. bet there's a screw throughably not MF the cable. also, if that JB is buried, trhen you have cables in non prescribed zones and an inaccessible JB

 

[Darkwood]

Concerns as above is why the earth is broken it would suggest a pierced and/or damaged cable even if it passes insulation test it is possible the outer sheath is damaged thus should be replaced.

What you are asking about running a separate earth can be done but if it has no mechanical protection (run surface) then 4mm minimum.

Again i stress the concern is why the earth is missing... the diagram you did shows a ring around the sockets if this is the case the earth must be lost in both directions?

 

[telectrix]

as i see it, it's not a ring, but 2 radial branches from a JB. his vertical line on the left is a proposed rout for a new bit of cpc.

 

[Miketwinny]

that is probget the cupboards off and start digging. bet there's a screw throughably not MF the cable. also, if that JB is buried, trhen you have cables in non prescribed zones and an inaccessible JB

what ?

 

[Darkwood]

as i see it, it's not a ring, but 2 radial branches from a JB. his vertical line on the left is a proposed rout for a new bit of cpc.

Ah get it now .... still suggests damaged cable so no to his suggestion leaving L/N and running additional earth. Its a damaged cable and the reality is to get digging as has been stated

 

[Richard Burns]

You need to find that junction box as it may be the earth has just not been connected for that socket.
If the cable is damaged then I would remove (or at least disconnect) that cable and run a full new cable from the lower socket to the upper, then you have no problems with a fault on the hidden cable.

 

[Darkwood]

PS check on top of the cupboard ... you'll be surprised how often you find a joint feeding the sockets on there... thanks to years of kitchen fitters with little electrical knowledge.

3/10 for the artwork btw..... :28:

 

[telectrix]

what ?

stupid laptop on board mouse pad. cath it with hand while typing and it jumbles up the text. have to keep remembering to hit Fn and F7 to disable it.

 

[Miketwinny]

would like to disconnect from JB & higher socket then connect higher & lower sockets with new cable but cant remove cupboards to find JB so I can disconnect cable with broken or disconnected earth.

 

[Silly Sausage]

stupid laptop on board mouse pad. cath it with hand while typing and it jumbles up the text. have to keep remembering to hit Fn and F7 to disable it.

If you say so Tel, Hic!