Panels on market in 2012

[Eco Deal]

Has anybody heard that the brands of panels they used to supply to their customers in 2011 will or may not be in production next year???

like Sharp mono's or Samsung etc

Has I have been told that sharp have stop producing mono's and samsung have stop production all together ?????

please could anybody shed any light on this ???

how could the reduction of FITS in u.k Stop production of these panels as we are a small fry in the PV market???

 

[Somecamel]

Can't see it happening- Segen are stocking all the same brands as before.

One thing to watch out for is Sanyo are re-branding the solar side to Panasonic.

 

[Eco Deal]

hmmmm why are two suppliers telling me this then?

 

[JohnDee]

One thing to watch out for is Sanyo are re-branding the solar side to Panasonic.

Correct - but I believe not until April.

Does anyone have any hard information with regard to the pricing of today's Sanyo panels in the first quarter of 2012?

 

[Somecamel]

hmmmm why are two suppliers telling me this then?

Maybe it will happen- Suppose we have been a bit spoilt for choice recently

 

[Eco Deal]

Correct - but I believe not until April.

Does anyone have any hard information with regard to the pricing of today's Sanyo panels in the first quarter of 2012?

looks like they have droped by around 20p per watt ???

 

[MCS Renewables]

We have family in Germany and have been told that the new feed in tariff rules that come into force there in early January offer a significantly higher rate of FITS or government interest free loan if the equipment used is European or German . The FITS there is expected to be reduced as well.

This will have an impact as other Eu countries will follow to help protect European jobs and is another big loss of market for far Eastern manufacturers. Once one of the larger Chinese indebted companies fail others will follow as the banking sector will lose faith.

Also the Eupd recent tests show only ten out of over 300 manufacturers modules are any good. If you read down the list past no.28 the life expectancy is expected to be less than five years for a lot of the cheap rubbish.

The German government does not want its population to be ripped off and has acted to protect them as oppossed to our muppets who introduced a shut off date which forced a lot of customers to have equipment fitted that will not pass the test of time. Long term this will have a further negative effect on the Solar industry or what is left of it.

 

[solarcat]

We have family in Germany and have been told that the new feed in tariff rules that come into force there in early January offer a significantly higher rate of FITS or government interest free loan if the equipment used is European or German . The FITS there is expected to be reduced as well.

This will have an impact as other Eu countries will follow to help protect European jobs and is another big loss of market for far Eastern manufacturers. Once one of the larger Chinese indebted companies fail others will follow as the banking sector will lose faith.

Also the Eupd recent tests show only ten out of over 300 manufacturers modules are any good. If you read down the list past no.28 the life expectancy is expected to be less than five years for a lot of the cheap rubbish.

The German government does not want its population to be ripped off and has acted to protect them as oppossed to our muppets who introduced a shut off date which forced a lot of customers to have equipment fitted that will not pass the test of time. Long term this will have a further negative effect on the Solar industry or what is left of it.

Similar measures were implemented in Italy back in June 2011: systems using panels made in the EU receive 10% more FIT. What "made in the EU" really means remains unclear, as often EU panels are made with cells from China or vice-versa.

 

[Yanman]

At least we can fall back on our British manufactured panels, inverters and mounting systems......Doh!!

 

[solarsavings]

Also the Eupd recent tests show only ten out of over 300 manufacturers modules are any good. If you read down the list past no.28 the life expectancy is expected to be less than five years for a lot of the cheap rubbish.

Do you have a link to that list please.

 

[MCS Renewables]

You need to buy the information its what pays for the research.

Not cheap is an understatement !!

EuPD Research - Research Market Place

Schott claim that the information is going onto their website soon.

 

[SRE]

We won't be installing Sharp next year. We stopped installing them earlier in the year partly because of price and partly because of build quality. I installed Sharp myself in Nov 2010 and I'm sick of my customers panels out performing my own panels! I'd like to be able to stick with Bisol but it's all going to come down to the pricing - still waiting for next year's prices....

 

[Eco Deal]

Just have to wait and see !!!!

 

[SpitfireW'sale]

Has anybody heard that the brands of panels they used to supply to their customers in 2011 will or may not be in production next year???

like Sharp mono's or Samsung etc

Has I have been told that sharp have stop producing mono's and samsung have stop production all together ?????

please could anybody shed any light on this ???

how could the reduction of FITS in u.k Stop production of these panels as we are a small fry in the PV market???

You are correct in saying Sharp are dropping their mono range and moving entirely to poly panels. This has enabled them to become more price competitive v's the cheaper, but good quality Chinese brands.
BP have left solar completely citing "commoditisation" of the market.
Sanyo have reduced prices considerably as well, but if the FIT rates do stay at 21p, they are still a little over priced to give people the ROI they demand in my opinion.

Interesting times!

 

[whlphil]

The Sunday Times picked up that of the 178 Chinese Module manufacturers, around 80 have already ceased production as they cannot compete with the big manufacturers. They are predicting that only 4 or 5 Chinese Module Manufacturers will survive through 2012. Of course all of the other Global Module Manufacturers are having the same problems and it is likely that by the end of 2012 less than 30 in the World will survive and it will reduce further in 2013, probably down to less than 10.


It will make a mess of the MCS Product list!!

So be careful who your choosing, this goes back to some of the discussions I was having with people last year about using unknown brands with questionable warranties, a lot of the warranties offered by the smaller (by smaller I mean less than $1Billion T/O) will not be valid once the companies goes bump as a lot of the insurance that supposedly backed up these companies was on part turnover so once the company disappears so does the insurance. If you value your reputation you need to choose wisely.

The UK is only a very small player globally and so our influence on world market prices is non existant (hence we have also been charged premium prices over the last year) but a lot of the world markets are in just the same position as us, most governments have limited money and appetite to support expensive technologies like PV and the funds that were available are drying up hence the collapse in prices worldwide. Just wait and see what happens when the Italian Conto energia program runs out of money in Mid March/April time and the second biggest market in the world disappears over night!

 

[SpitfireW'sale]

That sounds like an interesting article from the Sunday Times whlphil, is there a link to it that you could share?

Thanks

 

[whlphil]

That sounds like an interesting article from the Sunday Times whlphil, is there a link to it that you could share?

Thanks

Afraid not as Mr Murdoch doesnt let you deep link into his empire! It's a pay to see only site.. think it was this last Sunday If I remember rightly, last couple of weeks have a bit of a haze around them ;-)

 

[solarsparkie]

just like i said at the start , 21p will see cheap and nasty panels going up clients loosing out in the end as well as the country, what is the return rate when a system goes belly up in under 10 years with no guarantee?

 

[SpitfireW'sale]

That is a fair point solarsparkie, everyone is under increasing pressure to get systems on the roof for as little as possible. I hope the industry reputation does not suffer as a result.

- General point, and I appreciate that it is easier said than done, but it is worth focussing more on the performance aspects of a system such as yield, inverter features, etc over price.

Another often overlooked area is the aesthetic appeal of a finished array. I have seen many systems installed with how it will look on a roof almost an afterthought, with asymmetrical layout, and even panels overhanging the roof edge to get an extra one on. (!)

We have done well with selling "in roof" systems, and whilst they add to the cost of a system, the overall appeal of the array is greatly enhanced. Couple this with using black panels andblack brackets/clips can give installers a point of difference that has served several of our customers very well in the past.

 

[whlphil]

That is a fair point solarsparkie, everyone is under increasing pressure to get systems on the roof for as little as possible. I hope the industry reputation does not suffer as a result.

- General point, and I appreciate that it is easier said than done, but it is worth focussing more on the performance aspects of a system such as yield, inverter features, etc over price.

Another often overlooked area is the aesthetic appeal of a finished array. I have seen many systems installed with how it will look on a roof almost an afterthought, with asymmetrical layout, and even panels overhanging the roof edge to get an extra one on. (!)

We have done well with selling "in roof" systems, and whilst they add to the cost of a system, the overall appeal of the array is greatly enhanced. Couple this with using black panels andblack brackets/clips can give installers a point of difference that has served several of our customers very well in the past.

If you want good looking systems then Sunpower is about as good as it gets! Lower thermal coefficient aswell so lower losses compared to other all black systems especially if its an in roof. No busbars as they are all back contact just pure black.