Plastic versas Metal CU's - your chance to vote

[Barry White]

It would,

I’ve been doing some digging around about phenolic plastics and the 960°C hot wire tests.

Like E54 I’ve tried to burn the Wylex wooden frame. Plain and simply it just doesn’t burn.

I had a coal fire when I replaced my wylex (made aprox 1970 and cream in colour) and the wooden frame got thrown on my fire. It did burn eventually lasted a couple of hours, but a modern consumer unit would have gone in minutes.

 

[Octopus]

I'm still awaiting a response from Keith Smith at BEAMA to the following email I sent him:

"Keith

I appreciate your candid response and openness.

The quality of fuseboards has progressively dropped over the last 20 years and now they are so flimsy, and I'm not just referring to the, completely flimsy cases, it's the quality of the main switches, the mounting bars, the MCB's the RCBO's - this is what needs fixing.

Introduce a requirement for main switches to have 2 screws per terminal would be a step in the right direction and that coupled with improving the "strength" of the busbar for the MCB's and RCBO's would be good too.

My point remains that you can improve the case BUT ignoring the internal components and in some cases dangerous workmanship is not dealing with the problem."

and THIS is his response:

"HI xxxxx,
Picking up on your point - the drafting committee is made up of a wide range of 'interested parties' and 'industry experts'. The outcome is the consensus of their deliberations PLUS the public consultation (they call this stage a DPC = Draft for Public Comment) that was put out in December 2013 and closed in March 2014.

I can also confirm that the primary 'root cause' that was the catalyst for this particular regulation was agreed by all parties to be loose connections.

We will (as manufacturers) continue to consider any improvements that further enhance fire safety in addressing the root cause.

You make a reference to 'muppits' and in this respect we also find ourselves as Piggy (Miss) in the middle.

Best regards

Keith"


All I can add is Rxllxcks.

Loose connections - yup BUT the quality of the crxp materials doesn't help!

 

[nickblake]

All im going to say on the matter is if i have a bucket with a hole in i will fix the hole ,its ----- footing round a problem of why consumer units are catching on fire that should be looked at , poor quality screws poor workmanship etc etc etc

 

[sparkdog]

Wilts appear to have a range of amendment 3 cus in stock now,Crabtree,Wylex & Schneider.

 

[ipf]

Wilts appear to have a range of amendment 3 cus in stock now,Crabtree,Wylex & Schneider.

Surprise, surprise.....they're all over the place. A fair bit of hand rubbing going on, I'll wager.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Surprise, surprise.....they're all over the place. A fair bit of hand rubbing going on, I'll wager.

There will be, especially when they all need replacing because the insides will be burnt to a cinder! :smilielol5:

 

[Engineer54]

and THIS is his response:

"HI xxxxx,
Picking up on your point - the drafting committee is made up of a wide range of 'interested parties' and 'industry experts'. The outcome is the consensus of their deliberations PLUS the public consultation (they call this stage a DPC = Draft for Public Comment) that was put out in December 2013 and closed in March 2014.

I can also confirm that the primary 'root cause' that was the catalyst for this particular regulation was agreed by all parties to be loose connections.

We will (as manufacturers) continue to consider any improvements that further enhance fire safety in addressing the root cause.

You make a reference to 'muppits' and in this respect we also find ourselves as Piggy (Miss) in the middle.

Best regards

Keith"


All I can add is Rxllxcks.

Loose connections - yup BUT the quality of the crxp materials doesn't help!

You can't get much clearer than that reply as to who BEMA is looking after and it's certainly not the general public or the artisans that install there members products... The public consultation results were in all probability ----ed in to ''File 13'' ...eg the bin!!

 

[Engineer54]

One has to now ask the now very prudent question of, are the DNO's going to be made to use Metalclad Service Heads on all it's new installations?? Or doesn't all the plastic Service Heads count in this shambolic new regulation regarding fire-proof electrical enclosures?? General use service heads haven't been made of any form of metal since the second world war, and are currently actually deemed as dangerous in many cases...

You couldn't make this stuff up if you tried!!

 

[Essex_]

One has to now ask the now very prudent question of, are the DNO's going to be made to use Metalclad Service Heads on all it's new installations?? Or doesn't all the plastic Service Heads count in this shambolic new regulation regarding fire-proof electrical enclosures?? General use service heads haven't been made of any form of metal since the second world war, and are currently actually deemed as dangerous in many cases...

You couldn't make this stuff up if you tried!!

The DNOs fall outside the scope of BS7671 so the answer would be no.

 

[Engineer54]

What the F**k has that got to do with anything?? Exactly the same situation exists (according to BEAMA/IET) no matter who's scope it falls under!! Service heads are all fundamentally plastic, so are subject to the same risk of fire is it not??

That's what happens, when knee jerk solutions are applied to situations, instead of addressing the actual problem. It always invokes other/further problems to be addressed, and will continue to do so until the underlying problem is sorted...

 

[Essex_]

What the F**k has that got to do with anything?? Exactly the same situation exists (according to BEAMA/IET) no matter who's scope it falls under!! Service heads are all fundamentally plastic, so are subject to the same risk of fire is it not??

That's what happens, when knee jerk solutions are applied to situations, instead of addressing the actual problem. It always invokes other/further problems to be addressed, and will continue to do so until the underlying problem is sorted...

It has everything to do with it. They do not follow cable CSA when wiring house supplies nor volt drop on street lighting so why would they start here.

 

[Engineer54]

It has everything to do with it. They do not follow cable CSA when wiring house supplies nor volt drop on street lighting so why would they start here.

Don't be bloody daft, if the plastic is deemed to be a fire risk in CU/DB's then it applies to any electrical protective device enclosure, it doesn't suddenly change it's properties according to whose scope it falls under... It just goes to show how shambolic this knee jerk solution actually is!!

 

[Essex_]

Don't be bloody daft, if the plastic is deemed to be a fire risk in CU/DB's then it applies to any electrical protective device enclosure, it doesn't suddenly change it's properties according to whose scope it falls under... It just goes to show how shambolic this knee jerk solution actually is!!

So your issue is wider then. None of the regs apply to the DNOs so you are saying that needs addressing. I wouldn't disagree with you on that. That is a different argument. But right now it doesn't, so I am not going to waste my time worrying about service heads that have nothing to do with me or BS7671.

 

[Engineer54]

Lord, .....Give me Strength!!!

 

[telectrix]

here ye go.

 

[nickblake]

Totally agree with engineer 54 ,big problem is they are a law of there own here's a prime example

 

[Dan]

I'm just bumping some of the older threads in the general electrical forum that had a lot of replies. They might not be current topics, if they're not, just ignore them and they'll soon drop off the list. If you DO wish to add a reply and get the conversation going again, feel free to do so. Your input might help somebody else in the future.

 

[Dan]

I'm just bumping some threads in the Electrical Forum, don't mind me while I do this, you don't have to respond to them. Although if they are still current topics, and you do wish to reply, you're welcome to. Keep the thread on-topic and make sure you stick to the forum rules though.