Ring Final Circuit - spurs only

[John-SJW]

I read that it is against the regs that a ring final circuit cannot be just a ring with with spurs off it. In short, a ring must have sockets on it which double up as junctions. I find that hard to believe.

 

[John-SJW]

We've all seen sockets burned out. Not that long ago I had to replace a 63A socket which had completely burned out and had a plug stuck in it. This doesn't prove anything.

You just proved it by those words.

 

[nicebutdim]

You just proved it by those words.

You inferred that a 750W fridge was the cause of thermal damage to a socket, whereas the response pointed out that other factors were much more likely to have caused the damage - factors which aren't removed by hardwiring an appliance.

 

[John-SJW]

You inferred that a 750W fridge was the cause of thermal damage to a socket, whereas the response pointed out that other factors were much more likely to have caused the damage - factors which aren't removed by hardwiring an appliance.

Hard wiring a permanently connected appliance, rather than permantly plugged into a portable appliance outlet, make matters safer.

 

[nicebutdim]

Hard wiring a permanently connected appliance, rather than permantly plugged into a portable appliance outlet, make matters safer.

Perhaps you could expand upon this as I fail to understand how a 750W fridge is 'made safer' by hardwirng through an outlet plate, than connected via a BS1363 plug/socket arrangement.

 

[DPG]

Hard wiring a permanently connected appliance, rather than permantly plugged into a portable appliance outlet, make matters safer.

Why?

 

[John-SJW]

OP's thinking fails to take other regulatory limitations into account.

What might these be?

 

[davesparks]

You just proved it by those words.

Proved what? That a badly made connection overheats? We all knew that already.

I'm sure we've all seen plenty of burned out hardwired connections too.

 

[nicebutdim]

Proved what? That a badly made connection overheats? We all knew that already.

I'm sure we've all seen plenty of burned out hardwired connections too.

My response was intended to help the OP make this small leap in logic.

 

[nicebutdim]

What might these be?

My response depends on what you propose supplying from this theoretical 'ring final busbar'.

Perhaps you could state what your intentions might be, in this regard, and I'll be happy to answer with more specific details.

 

[davesparks]

Perhaps you could expand upon this as I fail to understand how a 750W fridge is 'made safer' by hardwirng through an outlet plate, than connected via a BS1363 plug/socket arrangement.

It is obviously far safer for a homeowner who has bought a new fridge to cut off a factory fitted plug and connect the flex into an outlet plate, having been to a wholesaler and purchased 3 individual ferrules, than it is for them to plug it in to a socket!

Those rules they brought in about all new domestic appliances being supplied with a plug fitted to them were obviously pointless, they days of people having to fit their onw plugs to everything we're far safer.

 

[davesparks]

Hard wiring a permanently connected appliance, rather than permantly plugged into a portable appliance outlet, make matters safer.

What is a 'portable appliance outlet'? You can't just change the name or definition of a socket outlet to suit your argument!

If hardwiring of domestic appliances made things safer then the rules wouldn't have been changed to require all appliances suitable for connection by a 13A plug to be supplied with one fitted!

 

[nicebutdim]

I used to believe this too. I don't know if it was included in the 15th or 16th edition, but there's no mention of it in BS7671:2018+Amd2:2022 (at least as far as I can see).

Drew a blank in BBB, but H2.4 of new OSG is clear on this point:

"....the number of non-fused spurs should not exceed the total number of socket outlets and items of stationary equipment connected directly in the circuit".

As such the number of sockets isn't the issue, but the number of points connected directly to the ring.

 

[John-SJW]

What is a 'portable appliance outlet'?

You need that explaining to you?

 

[Fazz711]

You need that explaining to you?

Yes.
Unless it's a socket if it is why not call it a socket?

 

[DPG]

You need that explaining to you?

Well, since it's a term that you have made up yourself,then yes.

 

[mainline]

Yes.
Unless it's a socket if it is why not call it a socket?

If all double back boxes were replaced with a 2 gang one Fcu and single socket, what would they be called ? Maybe a fcocket ?

 

[nicebutdim]

You need that explaining to you?

Perhaps you could address all the other unanswered questions?

 

[Fazz711]

If all double back boxes were replaced with a 2 gang one Fcu and single socket, what would they be called ? Maybe a fcocket ?

Fused spur and a socket in one double never seen one of them

 

[John-SJW]

Perhaps you could address all the other unanswered questions?

Like what?

 

[nicebutdim]

Like what?

It's your thread. If you follow the responses people have taken the time to post, they should be apparent.

 

[John-SJW]

Yes.
Unless it's a socket if it is why not call it a socket?

Yep. A socket is a socket.

 

[DPG]

Yep. A socket is a socket.

Pointless post. Put some effort in John, it's your thread after all

 

[Moley]

Yep. A socket is a socket.

So, a 110v yellow socket is the same as a blue 230v commando socket which therefore is also the same as a bs1363? Bugger, I've been doing it wrong for so long.....

 

[John-SJW]

So, a 110v yellow socket is the same as a blue 230v commando socket which therefore is also the same as a bs1363? Bugger, I've been doing it wrong for so long.....

You must have been.

 

[mart spark]

Fused spur and a socket in one double never seen one of them

The back box is a dual backbox slightly wider than a standard double back box allowing 2 single face plates to be fitted, be they single socket outlet, flex outlet or FCU.

 

[UNG]

The back box is a dual backbox slightly wider than a standard double back box allowing 2 single face plates to be fitted, be they single socket outlet, flex outlet or FCU.

Or you could use one of these

And have a double socket and a spur

 

[littlespark]

Just thinking about every point being a spur off the rfc, and no actual points as part of the rfc…..

What if you want to add an additional socket or point next to an existing?
You would have to go to the joint box rather than a local socket.