Security lights ,can't switch off. On 2 circuits?

[paul243]

Hi
I have two security lights controlled by three PIRs. Recently the lights have been coming on at random throughout the night, I suspect the PIRs to be faulty. I tried (at 3am) to switch them off.There is a fused switch in a bedroom which is fed from an adjacent socket which will switch them on and off BUT they remain switched by the PIRs. I tripped all the trips at the board, one by one, but the lights stayed on and the socket is still live.So I can't turn off the lights!
I've removed the bulbs for now.
Have they been wired wrongly (by a pro sparks) or could the lights and the socket be on two separate circuits?
Thanks

 

[Pete999]

Hi
I have two security lights controlled by three PIRs. Recently the lights have been coming on at random throughout the night, I suspect the PIRs to be faulty. I tried (at 3am) to switch them off.There is a fused switch in a bedroom which is fed from an adjacent socket which will switch them on and off BUT they remain switched by the PIRs. I tripped all the trips at the board, one by one, but the lights stayed on and the socket is still live.So I can't turn off the lights!
I've removed the bulbs for now.
Have they been wired wrongly (by a pro sparks) or could the lights and the socket be on two separate circuits?
Thanks

What sort of property do you live in? Have you tried switching OFF the main switch on your Consumers unit (fuse board)?

 

[paul243]

Thanks for reply
It's a detached house
The main switch will kill everything but I can't do that just to to turn off the lights when they malfunction.
Should there not be a facility to isolate the lights?
Could they be on two circuits?

 

[Pete999]

You said in your initial post that the fused switch in the bedroom WILL switch your lights Off, but the PIRs still switch them on and off.
Now I could be wrong, and you don't seem to have any electrical skills, you're not doing anything as simple as switching the fused switch OFF and then On again are you,as daft a question as it may seem there have been sillier things done by intelligent people.
The reason I asked you to isolate the whole consumers unit was to prove the possibility of these lights being fed fom another source, but as you live in a detached property that seems very unlikely, the advice, if the switch off of the CU kills the lights would indicate a slight problem which an Electrician should investigate. Sorry to be unable to help further, another question which I have just thought of before I finish,these lights don't have a battery back up unit do they. Please let us know how you get on, this is an interesting problem, not for you though, quite annoying I should think.

 

[paul243]

The lights come on via the PIRs when the fused switch is OFF.
There is no battery back up.
It's also a worry that I also can't isolate the double socket which feeds the switch ..
I plugged in a lamp, tripped all the trips in turn but it remains live! which makes me think it is on two circuits, if so which two? That possible?
Any way of testing the PIRs? One is fairly new but two are 10 years old
Thanks again

 

[telectrix]

my guess is that there are 2 or more socket rfc's and some muppet has cross connected 2 of them so that the socket that won't switch off , 1 breaker at a time, has a feed from 2 breakers.

 

[Pete999]

my guess is that there are 2 or more socket rfc's and some muppet has cross connected 2 of them so that the socket that won't switch off , 1 breaker at a time, has a feed from 2 breakers.

Beat me to it again Tel, was going to say the very same if the op had switched off the entire CU, your theory is a goer I reckon.

 

[telectrix]

Beat me to it again Tel, was going to say the very same if the op had switched off the entire CU, your theory is a goer I reckon.

i'm on a high atm. just got back from YESSS after a free calibration of my MFT, including a free bacon bap.

 

[shaun1]

It could be that the PIRs are fed from a circuit somewhere else (another FCU somewhere? Or the lighting circuit), and that someone has added the FCU onto the circuit supplying the socket to provide an override. Thus would mean that when the circuit supplying the socket is off, the PIRs will back feed it through the FCU when they are activated. This is potentially quite dangerous and definitely needs further investigation to confirm/rule out.

 

[paul243]

There are several power (red) breakers on the board.Should I trip them all and see what happens?

 

[telectrix]

It could be that the PIRs are fed from a circuit somewhere else (another FCU somewhere? Or the lighting circuit), and that someone has added the FCU onto the circuit supplying the socket to provide an override. Thus would mean that when the circuit supplying the socket is off, the PIRs will back feed it through the FCU when they are activated. This is potentially quite dangerous and definitely needs further investigation to confirm/rule out.

that's another possibility.

 

[telectrix]

There are several power (red) breakers on the board.Should I trip them all and see what happens?

yes. then switch on 1 at a time till lights come on. mark the MCB that does this and switch it off. then see if ant other MCBs activate the lights.just seen you are in cheshire. so am i. whereabouts are you?

 

[Pete999]

i'm on a high atm. just got back from YESSS after a free calibration of my MFT, including a free bacon bap.

You got it done then? was it very busy?

 

[telectrix]

You got it done then? was it very busy?

fair busy. most importantly, i only spent £32 on tools and got a free pair of NWS cutters worth £30.

 

[paul243]

Telextrix
I'm a poor resident of Wilmslow and ex scouser!

 

[Pete999]

fair busy. most importantly, i only spent £32 on tools and got a free pair of NWS cutters worth £30.

Tool Tart at it again? nice free bee though well done

 

[telectrix]

a few miles for me. don't mind having a look with just expenses ( gallon of diesel and 2 pints ale). i'm just on the wild side of Northwich.

 

[Pete999]

fair busy. most importantly, i only spent £32 on tools and got a free pair of NWS cutters worth £30.

Tool Tart at it again? nice free bee though well done

a few miles for me. don't mind having a look with just expenses ( gallon of diesel and 2 pints ale). i'm just on the wild side of Northwich.

Snap his hand off, can't get a better offer than that from a Scouser, ONLY providing he tells us what the problem was.

 

[telectrix]

yep, and it's only just down the road from manchester airport. might be able to nick a couple of 737's .

 

[Pete999]

yep, and it's only just down the road from manchester airport. might be able to nick a couple of 737's .

Have a hard job fencin them Tel