Seperate Circuit For Fridge/freezer !!

[Engineer54]

Thats the one.....

One of many as i remember...lol!!!

 

[Paul P]

Yeah but then you void the warranty of the appliance

Has anyone got any proof of this? I am sure it is a myth.

 

[Engineer54]

It's just a matter of unscrupulous companies including unenforceable/unlawful clauses into warranties, in a bid to void warranties, and/or gain call out fee's and the like... Basically scaremongery at it's worst!!!

 

[Paul P]

Though so, i am sure i have seen instructions that read some like if the plug does not fit you sockets cut it off and remove the fuse and dispose of it safely.

 

[kamkam]

Well that clears that up ;-)

 

[Engineer54]

In Cyprus, they use the British 13A plug and socket as there standard small power system exactly the same as in the UK. However, i'd say 80% or more of the appliances sold in Cyprus have European style plug tops attached to them. Totally illegal according to EU rules and regulations, that basically state, ...Any electrical appliance sold within the EU must be provided with a suitable plug top for the final country of use'' So the only thing you can do is cut the provided plug top from the lead.

All of these appliance outlets know of this EU law but choose to ignore it when the price is right. Some shops will give you an adaptor, for these European plug tops ...but there not exactly safe to use, as they allow the 2 pin and the 2 pin with scrapping earth plug tops to be inserted with the wrong polarity, as all are non polarized plug tops!!!

Ooooops, sorry gone a little of base here...lol!!! But i hope you get my drift as to why it's a nonsense to void a warranty by cutting a moulded plug from it's lead...

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Better still, the other countries should all use our 3 pin plugs, then there wouldn't be a problem.

 

[davelerave]

Why cant it all go back to each country in europe having its own styles of plug,own laws, own currency etc.....

prob will soon enough -the way this debt crisis is heading

 

[richy3333]

Why cant it all go back to each country in europe having its own styles of plug,own laws, own currency etc.....

I can't speak for the south, but northern Cyprus has a similar electrical set-up/supply. It dates back to when the Island was under British rule. When the Island was handed back by Britain rather than adopting their own countries electrical set-up they (Turkish-Cypriots) continued to use the UK one. They also drive on the left etc.

Back on thread - A shop/supplier could not void a warranty for cutting a moulded plug off a cable unless the removal of the moulded plug had a direct cause/correlation to the failure of the appliance. As for the Comet comment saying that it invalidates your consumer rights under Sales of Goods legislation is laughable.

 

[richy3333]

I meant to say, I've created dedicated 'freezer' circuits before and rather than connect into a FSU, cutting the plug off I just labelled the socket and marked the certificate appropriately as such and that the customer had been instructed. My NICEIC assessor was more than happy with what I'd done (and before we go off at a tangent about the NICEIC - he was very thorough with his assessment, lasted 12 hours!)

 

[dooper]

In my house i have an older Wylex gun metal grey metal clad CU,the one with the main incomer ELCB over on the right and the yellow push to test button.

It might have had rewireable cartridges once upon a time, i dont know but now it has plug in MCBs

The house is about 27 years old.

Occasionally i come home,sometimes after holiday,and the main incomer has flicked off.

We have had a couple of defrosted fridges as a result.

Non of the MCBs flick off.

I did have a chat with an electrician who suggested that it might be very difficult to trace the fault.

I could have a new CU fitted but that might be worse due to increased sensitivity.

I dont mind engaging an elect to try and fix it,but one already had a go and could not find any fault so worried about spending big money and getting no where !
I even did my own fault finding, i.e unplug and switch off everything but it still did it.

It tends to happen in phases. We will get a couple of flick offs then thats it for the year so total offs might be 3 or 4 per year..fine if your home,no good for hols

Is there an answer?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

It sounds like you have a TT system.
The ELCB may be either Voltage Operated (VOLECB) or current operated (virtually an RCD).
There are some RCDs about, that will re-set themselves automatically, once the fault that caused the trip clears.

 

[dooper]

It sounds like you have a TT system.
The ELCB may be either Voltage Operated (VOLECB) or current operated (virtually an RCD).
There are some RCDs about, that will re-set themselves automatically, once the fault that caused the trip clears.

I have no idea..i just know its in a busy urban environment and the house is about 27 years old.The incoming supply has two black incoming calbes..presumably one just loops through and out to my neighbour? the incoming cables and the board fuse are in the same unit and just right of the board incoming fuse is a metal earth terminal to which is connected an earth wire off to the CU.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Was this the idea behind 100mA time delayed rcds on the 16th spin?

Sort of.
Time delay was primarrily used to provide discrimination.
At that time you were allowed 5 secs disconnection for many circuits, now reduced to 1 sec on TT distribution circuits, and 0.2 for all others.
The 5 secs delay would allow short duration spikes such as those caused by fridge/frezer compressors, and damp ccoker elements, to clear before the RCD would operate.
I would imagine that with the new disconnection times, and with many people installing 30mA up front RCDs, nuisance tripping will become much more widespread.
From the sound of it, in the OP's case, either the ELCB is becoming tired and over sensitive, or the fridge or freezer may be on their way out.
Could possibly be accumulated earth leakage, but as the OP was on holiday at the time, I'd think it unlikely.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

As far as the fridge/freezer is concerned an earth leakege test with a clamp will prove if thats the offender but isnt a volecb to be condemned now wherever they are found?

They don't comply with current Regulations as a sole protective device.
However they can still be used in addition to an RCD, and obviously do not require upgrading unless they are no longer operating correctly, or other work is being carried out.
Can suffer nuisance tripping due to diverted neutral currents introduced through bonded services.

 

[malcolmsanford]

In my house i have an older Wylex gun metal grey metal clad CU,the one with the main incomer ELCB over on the right and the yellow push to test button.

It might have had rewireable cartridges once upon a time, i dont know but now it has plug in MCBs

The house is about 27 years old.

Occasionally i come home,sometimes after holiday,and the main incomer has flicked off.

We have had a couple of defrosted fridges as a result.

Non of the MCBs flick off.

I did have a chat with an electrician who suggested that it might be very difficult to trace the fault.

I could have a new CU fitted but that might be worse due to increased sensitivity.

I dont mind engaging an elect to try and fix it,but one already had a go and could not find any fault so worried about spending big money and getting no where !
I even did my own fault finding, i.e unplug and switch off everything but it still did it.

It tends to happen in phases. We will get a couple of flick offs then thats it for the year so total offs might be 3 or 4 per year..fine if your home,no good for hols

Is there an answer?

If the ELCB is a voltage type, and the yellow button is normally an indication they are, but to double check your earth wire should be connected to it, something like this

If it is this type then, these units were always prone to nuisance tripping. Because they worked on voltage rather than today's RCD that works on current imbalance, any voltage variance or spike tended to trip them, and so they were replaced in later years with the current operated ELCB and then the RCD.

All faults can be located and found, and you may not even have a fault as explained above. Personally I would have the board changed. Most guys would leave the unit in, removing the earth and using it as an isolator, and then fit you a new either dual board or a RCBO board, IMO I would go for the RCBO board, but that is something your chosen electrician will mull over with you.

I'm sure if you posted your location, not your address, just your location, one of the lads local to you, on here would gladly help you out, and you can be sure that they can be trusted.

 

[caldymark]

I had an ELCB that would nuisance trip when there was thunder and lightening locally. When it was replaced, the meter tails were found to be loose at the meter connections. Possibly worth getting it checked if a new consumer unit is being fitted.
Or if you havn't got one already, ask the nice people at your Distribution Network Operator (DNO) to fit an isolating switch after the meter. You will then be certain the connections are well made and a new seal will be fitted.
Then if you decide on a new consumer unit, your electrician can isolate the supply without cutting the meter seal.