Testing you install???

[Jay Sparks]

Hi Guys & Gals,

Its been a long time since I've posted a new thread but I heard something the other day and just felt I needed to ask this question.

For those of you that work on heavy commercial and/or industrial, either as a maintenance spark or sub contractor, do you inspect, test and certify your installs?

The reason I ask is because a well known manufacturing plant I have dealings with said they don't test any of their installs because someone comes in once a year to do an EICR!? Now I was speaking with one of my colleagues about this and I said any electrical work should be tested and certified. He said that's not how it works in industrial because it doesn't need notifying!?

Now I put him straight on the in's and out's of certifying and notifying (I didn't quote any regs, I just hit him with the BYB.lol). I wanted to see what other peoples take on this is?

Cheers

Jay

 

[Leesparkykent]

Hi Guys & Gals,

Its been a long time since I've posted a new thread but I heard something the other day and just felt I needed to ask this question.

For those of you that work on heavy commercial and/or industrial, either as a maintenance spark or sub contractor, do you inspect, test and certify your installs?

The reason I ask is because a well known manufacturing plant I have dealings with said they don't test any of their installs because someone comes in once a year to do an EICR!? Now I was speaking with one of my colleagues about this and I said any electrical work should be tested and certified. He said that's not how it works in industrial because it doesn't need notifying!?

Now I put him straight on the in's and out's of certifying and notifying (I didn't quote any regs, I just hit him with the BYB.lol). I wanted to see what other peoples take on this is?

Cheers

Jay

You should always test your work otherwise how do you know it's safe?

 

[Jay Sparks]

You should always test your work otherwise how do you know it's safe?

This was my argument and the fact it say's it in the regs.lol
I am just surprised that my colleague as well as the sparkies at the plant say it doesn't need doing!? Shocking!!! Was hoping someone who does this work regularly has maybe heard, or come across this before. My concern is that they have an apprentice there doing the 2357 and if this is what they are teaching him, then it is wrong!

Jay

 

[Jay Sparks]

You should always test your work otherwise how do you know it's safe?

They probably do the old "flick & bang" test!! Flick the mcb on and see if it go's bang,lol

 

[Darkwood]

An EICR is what it says on the tin 'at the time of testing' and in Commercial and Industrial these inspections can cover just a sample percentage of the installation so not checking all circuits.

You should never energise a circuit unless you have tested it first.

Documentation needs to be issued to finalise the job, if something occurs be it a fire or a death etc nd the electric are suspect then the commisioning certification that you provide is what the insurance company will require and also ensures if your work is up to standards that you will not be liable... as the EICR is usually 3yrs on Industrial unless its deemed to require more frequent checks then someones install may not be confirmed safe for a few years before the next due EICR ... the company will not have a leg to stand on nor will the contractor not providing the cert's

 

[Richard Burns]

I agree that this is obviously a means to save time and money that is inappropriate.
I can see that someone will have inspected the work as they install it and so it may be covered on inspection.
To not have tested the work can lead to major problems not least legally as Darkwood says but if using the turn on and bang method this could cause other site repercussions if the wrong fuse goes.
To fail to certify the work is foolish and certainly an EICR may well not cover that circuit for many years and would also not be covered in depth on inspection.
Overall a foolish, dangerous and legally suspect approach.

 

[GMES]

Darkwood beat me to it and explained it perfectly, I do mainly Industrial and wouldn't dream of energising a circuit without testing it.
It also as DW said needs certifying and keeping on file for any future issues, they ound like a bunch of cowboys or pit electricians ( Ready for a storm of abuse from any ex pit sparks on the forum:rofl:

 

[Jay Sparks]

The company I am referring to have their own in house maintenance electricians and an apprentice. I asked the apprentice what installation work he had done recently. He told me that he had just installed a 16A socket using SY. I asked him what tests he carried out and he looked at me blank. He told me that they never test anything and they don't even have a test kit! I asked to speak with his supervisor, expecting it to just be a misunderstanding on the apprentices behalf. His supervisor said, "no, we never test anything, there's no point, it gets tested every year anyway"!. I then pointed out that not only is it dangerous not to test, it's a requirement of the regs. He laughed and said the regs are a load of sh!t.

Later I was telling my colleague and expected him to have the same opinion as me but he seemed to say the same thing, (until I put him straight)!. But it got me thinking, how many people actually do this, or think this it's acceptable? Now I don't claim to know everything but this is/should be common knowledge to all electricians!?

Jay

 

[Leesparkykent]

We inspect and commission after the completion of work for three key reasons to ensure:
● compliance with BS 7671
● compliance with the project specification
● that it is safe to use.

BS 7671 Part 6 states that every electrical installation shall, either during construction, on completion, or both, be inspected and tested to verify, so far as is reasonably practicable, that the requirements of the Regulations have been met. In carrying out such inspection and test procedures, precautions must be taken to ensure no danger is caused to any person or livestock and to avoid damage to property and installed equipment.All electrical items must be tested before finally being put into service.

Once the installation is complete, we need to test it against the original specification for the work. This is in order to check that the finished installation matches the requirements laid out by the customer and is fit for use in the environment where it will be used.

● Pre-commissioning – this involves a full inspection of the installation and the carrying out of all tests required before the installation is energised.

● Commissioning – includes all tests which require power to be available.

The commissioning process is intended to confirm that the installation complies with the designer’s requirements. As such, commissioning includes the functional testing of all equipment, isolation, switching, protective devices and circuit arrangements

The final act of the commissioning process is to ensure the safe and correct operation of all circuits and equipment which have been installed, and that the customer’s requirements have been met. This will also confirm that the installation works
and, more importantly, will work under fault conditions; after all, it is under fault conditions that lives and property will be at risk.

Initial verification is intended to confirm that the installation complies with the designer’s requirements and has been constructed, inspected and tested in accordance with BS 7671.

 

[Leesparkykent]

I feel sorry for their apprentice as he's not going to get a very good grounding working with sparks who have such a blasé attitude.

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

No one bite my head off here, trying things to see if it sticks

3rd party testing, as there is no real paper work set for it, I was told (I think napit ---) that you would use aEICR
[NB he was nearly shouting about me even asking about 3rd party. If he spat on the floor every time said it I wouldn't be shocked]
Well I wounder if.that is what this company is doing