The Burka - To ban or not to ban?

[D Skelton]

Following on from recent events in France and burkini-gate, I'm interested in your opinions.

I've got my views which I'm sure I'll chip in with later, but for now, as the title suggests, what are your thoughts and why?

 

[telectrix]

why not create a poll? ban/not ban/don't care. fwiw, i'd ban them, if only from a security standpoint.

 

[D Skelton]

I'm less interested in the result to be honest, more the reasons why.

 

[Darkwood]

I believe the playing field should be level with respect to what someone wears, I believe there are a few angles of approach here and one is wear what you wish (not deliberately offensive) but where rules apply be them for security reasons or a dress code like a work place then there shouldn't be exemptions based on faith as this creates the very divides we are witnessing on a daily basis.

There is also the angle of why the Niqab, Burka etc are worn, its through a more extreme interpretation of the Quran and those that follow these practices tend to also practice and believe other more fanatical interpretations of Islam, this segregates them from the rest of society, promotes ideoligies that are anti-British be it anti-gay, Sharia or breaching animal cruelty laws.

There was a program not long ago polling about this and asking the question over should they be banned or not, what was a little scary of the finding of the report was that the muslim women wearing such attire actually agree to having to wear it... the shock was the reasons most of them gave 'it's to stop the temptation of the male' as they are brought up to believe it is their fault if they are molested, attacked or raped because they showed to much skin.

Banning the headwear would send many muslim women into recluse living a life stuck indoors but this would be worth the ban if proper help and support was available and would also protect the future generations of women from such a oppressive cultural practice.

Many countries now have banned the headwear afore mentioned or restrict in large cities, France, Belguim, Turkey, Spain, Italy to name a few regular holiday destinations + many more across the world, its been implemented successfully in many countries and tends to reduce the overall racial tensions seen by the practice.

I would be up for a Ban because of all the reasons I have laid out, I work in a majority muslim industry and I have had many a open discussion with lads on site of which some are Imams... what scares me is what I hear and how they see women and there role.

 

[Dan]

If doesn't bother me at all. I think if somebody is going to do something they'll do it anyway. Doesn't matter what they wear.

 

[GMES]

My opinion is they should be banned on security grounds, I couldn't walk in to a bank or even a petrol station with a motor bike helmet on so people covering their faces with a Burka should be subject to the same rules.

 

[gutterball]

The way i see it is that if you are going to live in another country, you should integrate yourself in to that country's way of life and customs. That's why there is so many problems. Everyone trying to live as if they are still in there own country. It's not just in the UK. My wife's grandfather has lived in Spain for about 15 years and knows about half a dozen words of Spanish.

 

[Silly Sausage]

I don't care anymore.
Considering Muslims are only 4.8% of the population (2011 census), they don't half make enough 'noise'!
I'm sick of hearing about them.

 

[Darkwood]

The way i see it is that if you are going to live in another country, you should integrate yourself in to that country's way of life and customs. That's why there is so many problems. Everyone trying to live as if they are still in there own country. It's not just in the UK. My wife's grandfather has lived in Spain for about 15 years and knows about half a dozen words of Spanish.

I agree with your argument but a big misconception is that they are from another country, most muslims in the UK were born here and sometimes second or third generations so they are on paper that is, as British as the next person, whether they choose to intergrate is a very different thing.

 

[Pete999]

Having worked in several Islamic Countries, and having to abide by the various codes of dress in those countries, my opinion is a resounding yes the burka should be banned, thats all I am going to say on a forum, I have several other reasons but prefer not to say.

 

[Dan]

I think we're a cool country that's diverse and we're lucky to be born here. If I was born somewhere that forced me to do anything especially wear something in particular id be gutted. (Probably wouldn't as it would be normal for me but you know what I mean).

I wouldn't say we need to make people adhere to not wearing, that's as bad as being forced to wear something.

But I do agree that the cultures need to bond a bit more perhaps.

I'm quite lucky I have Asian friends of a few religions and some seek friends of mine wear the head gear and some don't. It doesn't bother me either way but I like the fact that my generation and the one after mine get along just fine no matter what colour of skin, what they wear, or where their great grandparents are from.

Hell, even saw a ginger guy giving a blond guy some stick the other day because he was blond!!! Hahaha

 

[sparkdog]

Just ban it, don't be "reasonable" about it all.

 

[Pete999]

I think we're a cool country that's diverse and we're lucky to be born here. If I was born somewhere that forced me to do anything especially wear something in particular id be gutted. (Probably wouldn't as it would be normal for me but you know what I mean).

I wouldn't say we need to make people adhere to not wearing, that's as bad as being forced to wear something.

But I do agree that the cultures need to bond a bit more perhaps.

I'm quite lucky I have Asian friends of a few religions and some seek friends of mine wear the head gear and some don't. It doesn't bother me either way but I like the fact that my generation and the one after mine get along just fine no matter what colour of skin, what they wear, or where their great grandparents are from.

Hell, even saw a ginger guy giving a blond guy some stick the other day because he was blond!!! Hahaha

I agree with you Dan on some points, but I'll take issue with you on your third paragraph, it's a good statement the problem I think is the Radicals, the Sharia thugs to name a few, won't want to be reasonable, I to have fiends fro differing cultures.
As I said in my last post, I have experienced the intolerance's in Islamic cultures and it can and was very frightening, being forced to watch street punishment, just because I wasn't dressed the same as the nationals. The Burka,I believe is an affront to Women, and is, on the whole worn because they have to for fear of retribution, as an example on a flight out of Iran the Women passengers all burkad up and as soon as the Captain announced we were out of national air space, the clamor for the WCs was something to see, not for toilet used just to change into the latest fashion, or in most cases just to take the Burka off, I'm sure if the majority of Burka wearing ladies were given the choice they would ditch it altogether, ban it, ban the Sharia Police, ban the hate mongers among the Islamic clergy, then and only then would it be easier to bond with people of differing religions and cultures. sorry for the rant

 

[Midwest]

There are many forms of headdresses that woman & man wear, for example nuns and Sikhs. I see nothing wrong in women wanting to wear headdresses that cover everything but their face, Hijab I think its called.

Although I know some people find that sort of clothing equally as offensive, you only have to walk down a High St during summer and see scantly clad women (I'm not talking models!), who could do with covering up a bit, that includes bear chested males in speedos!

I was listening the Jeremy Vine show the other week, when they were on about Anjem Choudary, being interviewed on his show. A Muslim cleric argued the programme should of not be aired, but went on to say, when the BBC did, it should of had someone like him to counter Choudary's arguments. For example, talking about the Burka or Burqa, the fact is that it is not worn in many Muslim countries and its banned at the Hajj to Mecca (women are forbidden to wear the Burqa and Niqab, as they must have their faces uncovered).

For me I find it uneasy when I see anyone, who has their face covered. Someone's also mentioned motorcyclists having to remove helmets, going in to pay for fuel, as robbers have used to avoid detection. Criminals often cover their faces to carry out their crimes. Perhaps that's why most find that sort of headgear either offensive or disturbing. Sometimes I feel troubled, when seeing police cover their faces with a fireproof balaclava, but I suppose we have to accept they do that for a reason.

After recent events in France, I can see why bans are taking place. In needs a cautious sensible approach, you could imagine the clamour, if Sikhs had been the terrorists in France. I believe there is an 'anti-mask law' at demonstrations in the UK, so legislation can be sensibly introduced.

If very few women wear the Burka, and it's not supported by Islam, and if it's done here for security issues, public safety & confidence, I see no reason why we can't consider banning them.

 

[spary]

I don't think it should be banned so long as it doesn't start to be a major security concern, IMO you've got to respect people beliefs and religion.
The reason for wearing it is as everyone knows to prevent other males ogling them and thus preventing earthquakes, having said that I witnessed 2 muslim women in full kit fighting over a male, calling each other dirty slags in front of children at Batley park, I just wished I'd have had my phone to film it.

 

[Pete999]

There are many forms of headdresses that woman & man wear, for example nuns and Sikhs. I see nothing wrong in women wanting to wear headdresses that cover everything but their face, Hijab I think its called.

Although I know some people find that sort of clothing equally as offensive, you only have to walk down a High St during summer and see scantly clad women (I'm not talking models!), who could do with covering up a bit, that includes bear chested males in speedos!

I was listening the Jeremy Vine show the other week, when they were on about Anjem Choudary, being interviewed on his show. A Muslim cleric argued the programme should of not be aired, but went on to say, when the BBC did, it should of had someone like him to counter Choudary's arguments. For example, talking about the Burka or Burqa, the fact is that it is not worn in many Muslim countries and its banned at the Hajj to Mecca (women are forbidden to wear the Burqa and Niqab, as they must have their faces uncovered).

For me I find it uneasy when I see anyone, who has their face covered. Someone's also mentioned motorcyclists having to remove helmets, going in to pay for fuel, as robbers have used to avoid detection. Criminals often cover their faces to carry out their crimes. Perhaps that's why most find that sort of headgear either offensive or disturbing. Sometimes I feel troubled, when seeing police cover their faces with a fireproof balaclava, but I suppose we have to accept they do that for a reason.

After recent events in France, I can see why bans are taking place. In needs a cautious sensible approach, you could imagine the clamour, if Sikhs had been the terrorists in France. I believe there is an 'anti-mask law' at demonstrations in the UK, so legislation can be sensibly introduced.

If very few women wear the Burka, and it's not supported by Islam, and if it's done here for security issues, public safety & confidence, I see no reason why we can't consider banning them.

Shame on the BBC for giving Choudary air time, all these years he has been preaching his hate, finally got sentenced, 5 Years what a joke. he will be locked away with more of his kind, become some sort of Muslim super Con, as I said a joke.

 

[D Skelton]

Some interesting replies here.

Well, I said I'd air my views so here they are...

Currently, I'm not fully decided on what side of the fence I sit on. My views on this issue are somewhat paradoxical. The burka as a garment is something that I detest. I detest what it stands for and I detest the statement that is made by those who do choose to wear it.

The burka as a concept in the most part stands for the subjugation of women. The idea that the women who wear them are essentially the property of the husband, and that no other eligible man should lay eyes on her is a concept that I cannot abide by in a Western, secular democracy. The justification within Islam for treating women in this way is not hard to find, and I personally believe it should not be welcome anywhere, let alone on our shores.

The women who wear the burka rarely choose to do so of their own free will, and those who think they do are more than likely completely indoctrinated anyway. There are on the odd occasions where women who despite not being told they have to wear one, wear one anyway. They wear it as a political statement. They're essentially saying "look at me, I'm a Muslim, and I'm going to wear this to show you all just how devout I am regardless of what you think".

The burka, to me, symbolises everything that is wrong with the failed experiment of multiculturalism. The idea that you can take large numbers of people with completely incompatible cultures, backgrounds, ideologies and values, shove them all into a tiny melting pot, and expect them to get along swimmingly, is in fact obsurd to all except a vocal minority on the far left of the political spectrum.

All the above being said, the liberal in me just cannot stomach the idea that we should legislate to control what people wear. There is no law preventing me from walking down the street wearing a motorcycle helmet or a balaclava, so why should we introduce laws to prevent women from wearing burkas?!

Now rules on private property are a different story. I believe that companies and land owners should be fully within their rights to restrict items of clothing on their land as they see fit, so long as those rules are applied fairly across the board. An example of this can be seen at petrol stations and banks with regards to facial coverings. It's my firm belief that if you are to restrict motorcycle helmets, then in the interest of equality for all, you should also restrict burkas, and vice versa.

We live in a society where people should be able to choose freely how they dress, what they say and think, and what to believe in. We live in a society that is simply better than the societies around the world who impose theocracy upon its citizens and it's resultant and inevitable authoritarian restrictions.

My personal view thus far...

A ban on the burka goes against every priciple I hold dear, however, for those in a position to impose their beliefs upon others, those who force people to wear items of clothing they don't want to wear, the husbands, the brothers, the fathers and the imams who tell women "you must wear this black sack for the rest of your days whilst out in public"... The punishments should be swift and the punishments should be harsh!

 

[spary]

multiculturism is white genocide.

fire away leftwing loonies lol

 

[Dan]

multiculturism is white genocide.

fire away leftwing loonies lol

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...elop-RED-eyes-darker-skin-better-looking.html

The other side of that argument is you'll be inbred if you go extreme.

We need mixes of races to evolve and get rid of common diseases etc

 

[telectrix]

as usual with your posts, a balanced view. if i had a hat i'd take it off to you, but my religion won't tolerate the removal of hats by baldies, as the hairpiece :mamazed:comes off with it.