This area seems grey, can you are can't you? Part P.

[Old Town Electrics]

Hi guys, its seems everyone has differing opinions on this, including myself. From my research it seems pretty obvious that you can only carry out electrical work on somebodys house if you are part of a part p electrical scheme.
From reading the forums and speaking to local electricians it seems many think its ok to carry out non-notifiable works. A local NICEIC electrician actually told me its fine to do this kind of work.
I'm just confused as from my research it seems all work needs an electrical certificate whether it be major or minor, and to do this properly you really need to test the circuit once completed on all works? Is this just impracticle and actually on most works you just go round add the new socket and move on?
I've noticed that alot of the local electricians aren't registered with anyone so are they all breaking the law? I've spoke to various working electricians who state part P qualified with 17th regs, but when you quiz them they are not registered with anyone. Does this mean that about 50% of electricians are working illegally in the UK? Im guessing that when these non registered electricians do work they don't produce a certificate because this would essentially be providing evidence against themselves that they have done work illegally?
Would love to get to the bottom of this as i'd love to get cracking on some non-notifiable works if it was ok to do so,or is it just a grey area and always will be??

 

[Spoon]

You don't have to be registered with somebody to do work and hand out certs for the work.
Certain types of work can be done by the DIYer.
Some work is defined as notifiable.
Are you after doing some work? What is the work? What quals do you have?

 

[Andy78]

Hi guys, its seems everyone has differing opinions on this, including myself. From my research it seems pretty obvious that you can only carry out electrical work on somebodys house if you are part of a part p electrical scheme.
Incorrect. Any competent person can carry out electrical work in somebodies house. Some work in houses is notifiable. Being a member of a part P scheme is not the only way to notify notifiable work.
From reading the forums and speaking to local electricians it seems many think its ok to carry out non-notifiable works. A local NICEIC electrician actually told me its fine to do this kind of work.
Non notifiable work does not need notifying, this is correct.
I'm just confused as from my research it seems all work needs an electrical certificate whether it be major or minor, and to do this properly you really need to test the circuit once completed on all works? Is this just impracticle and actually on most works you just go round add the new socket and move on?
The wiring regulations require that all alterations or additional work is tested and where appropriate a certificate produced. This is separate from a building control part P certificate.
I've noticed that alot of the local electricians aren't registered with anyone so are they all breaking the law? I've spoke to various working electricians who state part P qualified with 17th regs, but when you quiz them they are not registered with anyone. Does this mean that about 50% of electricians are working illegally in the UK? Im guessing that when these non registered electricians do work they don't produce a certificate because this would essentially be providing evidence against themselves that they have done work illegally?
Schemes are optional but are usually the easiest way to notify work to building control.
Would love to get to the bottom of this as i'd love to get cracking on some non-notifiable works if it was ok to do so,or is it just a grey area and always will be??
Are you competent to do so and possess the correct experience and equipment to carry out work in accordance with the wiring regulations ?

 

[Midwest]

Just posting cos I'm interested in the esponse

 

[Spoon]

Just posting cos I'm interested in the esponse

Or you could have just clicked on the 'Watch Thread'

 

[Richard Burns]

Under the wiring regulations all electrical work (as opposed to maintenance work) must be accompanied by a fully completed Electrical installation certificate (whether minor works or not is down to the work type done).
It should also be done by a competent (skilled person electrically) person.

Under the building regulations some electrical work (as detailed in part P of the building regulations) is notifiable to building control. (new circuits, CU changes, work in the zones of a room containing a bath or shower, swimming pools and saunas: In England)
For these there are various methods of notifying building control but the most time and cost effective is to be registered with a competent persons scheme (a "Part P" scheme).

These two are entirely separate and which one applies is dependent on the circumstances.

A competent person can do non notifiable work without being part of a scheme but must still issue an electrical installation certificate.

Notifiable work will require the electrical installation certificate and also notification to building control so they can issue a building regulations completion / compliance certificate, depending on the method of notification.

 

[Wilko]

Hi OTE,

Andy and Richard covered it.

If Building approval is not obtained when it's needed, then it's unapproved building works subject to those laws and procedures.
All normal electrical work (small or large, domestic or commercial, charitable or business) requires design, selection, installation, verification, testing and certification in compliance with BS7671. That is the job, not just 'add a new socket an move on'. I'm sure qualified electricians help with charitable works and you could assist as an instructed person, but please don't go it alone.

 

[Spoon]

Andy and Richard covered it.

and what about my post # 2 ?? I'm not you friend anymore....

 

[Wilko]

Sorry Spoon, despite the Matrix - there IS a Spoon !

 

[Midwest]

Or you could have just clicked on the 'Watch Thread'

Don't be daft, wouldn't know how to do that!

 

[Old Town Electrics]

Thanks for all your replys guys, all very helpful. I am not looking to go this alone or just 'add a socket and move on' lol. I understand the requirments of 7671 and realise that any work that I carry out must comply. I am just wondering whether its worth the time, money and effort to become competent. Obviously, if I become competent and can't carry out any work or be accepted on a part P scheme then its not worth it.

So from my understanding, if I can add a new socket to a ring for example and then test the amended circuit and get all the correct results, I am then a competent person? Its a very ambiguous term.

Luckily, I am meeting a guy next week, who is a competent person and I am helping him go it alone with the business side of things in return for his electrical expertise. He is however not part of a scheme and doesn't hold relevent qualifications. He has however been in the game for years and is willing to put his name to jobs. I was mainly asking these questions because I was unsure if the work he will be doing is legal, he says he only does non notifiable work. I am not putting my name to any of his work though, i'm simply getting him business and shadowing his work. Whilst shadowing I will be taking my 17th regs exam, part p exam and doing the c and g testing module.

Thanks again, these replys have made me come to the conclusion that I will plough on and become competent and start out doing non-notifiable works. Once I am confident and with a few more years experience I will carry out a notifiable job, obviously letting BC know before I start and paying them the £366 to certify it, and then I will join one of these 'scam schemes' and be just where I want to be. Although, reading other posts it seems that once im at that stage I may not want to join them anyway.

 

[telectrix]

OK. notifiable work basically consists of:

1. new circuits.

2. CU upgrade/replacement.

3. any work in a special location ( bath/shower rooms, swimming pools etc.)

for alteration/modification of circuits, repairs,etc. it's not notifiable and a certificate should be provided.

forget the part p exam, it's worthless paper. all you need to do is download the part p of the building regs. from planning portal and read and understand.

 

[Old Town Electrics]

Thanks for that telectrix. Whats the going rate when a customer asks to bypass the electrical meter?

 

[Old Town Electrics]

Haha, forget that post lol. I mis read your post and though you were being sarcastic lol. Please ignore me duh!!

 

[Spoon]

Thanks for that telectrix. Whats the going rate when a customer asks to bypass the electrical meter?

If they are female and fit then it's payment in kind....

 

[Old Town Electrics]

Thats some great advice though, saves me over £100

 

[telectrix]

they might prefer your fwiend ! @Spoon

 

[Old Town Electrics]

Thanks Spoon, I'm hoping all my customers to be female and fit, although I may not make much money

 

[Spoon]

they might prefer your fwiend ! @Spoon

usually goes that way mate......

 

[Wilko]

Hi OTE,
BS7671 now refers to ordinary, instructed and skilled person (rather than competent term). The skilled person would have been trained, examined and experienced in order to be judged skilled. You can readily find a list of the things needed by the CPS for membership online if you are interested which are a good start. Further, the Electricity at Work regulations requires electricans to be "competent to prevent danger and injury" and this would require a skilled person (as per BS7671 definition).
I know this may hurt, and it's just my view, but if your business partner is not a member of a CPS and holds no electrical qualifications I am not sure they would be judged skilled, so you would not be an instructed person. So I'm not sure you are supervised properly to do electrical work, Part P notifiable or not (who is the QA?). Perhaps I'm wrong, and others will correct me