Up front Rcd question

[D Skelton]

Okay this is becoming tiresome. Midwest, with the greatest of respect, you need to learn the difference between additional protection and fault protection.

Once you do, I assure you your lightbulb moment will come.

 

[Midwest]

There is no need to be insulting. I'm just trying to understand how suggesting a 100mA RCD would provide protection against electric shock in the scenarios given?

 

[Ian1981]

There is no need to be insulting. I'm just trying to understand how suggesting a 100mA RCD would provide protection against electric shock in the scenarios given?

It won't is the short answer it's for fault protection only.
Or in the terms of a time delay discrimination as well

 

[D Skelton]

On the contrary, it is not my intention to insult you. I simply realised that until you understand the fundamental concept of fault protection, what I'm saying will be going over your head.

I have made no suggestion that a 100mA RCD will provide additional protection (BS 7671 definition) against electric shock, only that it will provide a form of back up fault protection.

 

[Midwest]

The s-type is merely there as a last resort, nothing more. But it's a last resort that could easily save someone's life should the 30mA RCD fail as they often do.

I'm sorry, I seem to have misunderstood your suggestion.

 

[D Skelton]

You most certainly have.

May I suggest you read up on fault protection as once you do, what I'm saying will become a lot clearer.

(that's a genuine suggestion and not meant to be read in a patronising tone btw)

 

[Midwest]

Before I go off and read up on fault protection;

So you weren't suggesting that using 100mA RCD would provide some measure of additional protection, in the event of the 30mA RCD failure?

 

[D Skelton]

No, I was suggesting that a 100mA s-type would provide a form of back up fault protection.

I stated that it would be an additional life saving safety measure rather than a substitution for one, but not that it would provide 'additional protection' as per the BS 7671 definition of 'additional protection'.

 

[Midwest]

Oh well that's clarified that then. Still not quite sure about the 'additional life saving safety measure', but I supposed we've done that to death, if you pardon the pun.

 

[D Skelton]

Still not quite sure about the 'additional life saving safety measure'

By providing a back up form of fault protection should the sole means of fault protection which is prone to failure fail.

This is an additional safety measure that should the sole means of fault protection fail, would most likely be life saving.

 

[Midwest]

I could debate some more as you are using terms which I think are opinion based 'additional safety measure', but as I said before, 'we've done that to death'. I'm sure you will like to have the last word though.

 

[D Skelton]

Additional safety measure
Optional safety upgrade
Improved safety device
Increased safety provision
Reduced danger implement
Best blimmin' practice

Take yer pick...

Whatever you wanna call it, the safety of the installation will be increased, a lot. Not really sure what's left to debate?

 

[Toneyz]

What ever happened before RCD/RCBO's there must of been people electrocuted all over the place

 

[D Skelton]

VOELCBs

 

[Ian1981]

What ever happened before RCD/RCBO's there must of been people electrocuted all over the place

Well in TT it was ELCB

 

[Dave OCD]

Yes voltage operated circuit breakers, hundreds of thousands still in use no doubt whether they work or not.

 

[Midwest]

Additional safety measure
Optional safety upgrade
Improved safety device
Increased safety provision
Reduced danger implement
Best blimmin' practice

Take yer pick...

Whatever you wanna call it, the safety of the installation will be increased, a lot. Not really sure what's left to debate?

That's your opinion though, and as per definitions, opinions are always right. Getting the last word; it is the only proof of your argumentative success over competing editors

 

[Ian1981]

VOELCBs

Yes voltage operated circuit breakers, hundreds of thousands still in use no doubt whether they work or not.

Think the guidance is if they still function correctly and earthing conductor is bonded through an appropriate electrode then they are a C3 on a eicr.
Others may disagree

 

[Dave OCD]

They make me nervous Ian, if that electrode connection corrodes or becomes detached that's it, they won't work. I'd always recommend their replacement ASAP, and how do you test one properly apart from the test button, nah best replaced IMO.

 

[D Skelton]

That's your opinion though, and as per definitions, opinions are always right. Getting the last word; it is the only proof of your argumentative success over competing editors

You can try all you like to write off my knowledge with "ah but that's only your opinion", or "you're only winning the argument because you just want to have the last word", but the fact remains that what I have said is objectively true. There is nothing subjective about it.

My argumentative success here is entirely based on the fact that I'm right, and you don't have a fundamental understanding of ADS.

Now go read up on fault protection.