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They make me nervous Ian, if that electrode connection corrodes or becomes detached that's it, they won't work. I'd always recommend their replacement ASAP, and how do you test one properly apart from the test button, nah best replaced IMO.
Would you C2 it then.
See the word there is IF.
But yeah I'd replace them but don't think I could just condem an installation if it was installed.
Too be fair most of the time it's a C2 as the electrode is the incoming water pipe !
 
Yes if found as part of an EICR I'd feel obliged to C2 it, but generally with those I tend to have a look in advance and advise the customer of anything likely to give rise to an unsatisfactory assessment.
 
Would you C2 it then.
See the word there is IF.
But yeah I'd replace them but don't think I could just condem an installation if it was installed.
Too be fair most of the time it's a C2 as the electrode is the incoming water pipe !
They make me nervous Ian, if that electrode connection corrodes or becomes detached that's it, they won't work. I'd always recommend their replacement ASAP, and how do you test one properly apart from the test button, nah best replaced IMO.
Actually yeah that's a fair point the testing part
 
So therefore a 30mA RCD would limit the minimise the current flow to 30mA (or there about), whereas a 100mA would minimise it to 100mA (or there about).

40mA is sufficient to prove fatal.
An RCD cannot minimise the current flow - that is entirely a product of Ohm's Law. All an RCD will do is disconnect if its residual operating current is realised.
 
Think the guidance is if they still function correctly and earthing conductor is bonded through an appropriate electrode then they are a C3 on a eicr.
Others may disagree

I am one Ian :)
In this simple mind of mine I recall the guidance being they are obsolete and are to be replaced,they cannot be relied on to disconnect a fault

The chances of anyone actually owning the correct test gear to determine if they actually work(other than pressing the test button) are very slim
If we are unable to determine if they work the installation should not be given a satisfactory eicr and replacement with a Rcd should be recomended
 
You can try all you like to write off my knowledge with "ah but that's only your opinion", or "you're only winning the argument because you just want to have the last word", but the fact remains that what I have said is objectively true. There is nothing subjective about it.

My argumentative success here is entirely based on the fact that I'm right, and you don't have a fundamental understanding of ADS.

Now go read up on fault protection.

I don't doubt you knowledge & expertise in the electrical field. I'm clearly not in the same playing field.

However you are offering an 'opinion' when saying a 100mA RCD would afford 'additional life saving safety measure'.

As I said before, everything I've read and heard recommends the use of 30mA RCD , to try and negate the risk of electrocution. Reg 415.1.1, ...............as additional protection in the event of failure of provision of basic protection and /or the provision for fault protection or carelessness by users.

I even read a study that suggests that value of little as 20mA, can cause paralysis of respiratory muscles, and can prove fatal. Those studies are written by people with lots of initials after their names, mind. Do you have a degree in medicine as well? If so, I would say your opinion in this matter, would be more professional and fact based.

I could say 'Now go and read up on the risk of electrocution', but that would just be plain rude.
 
I don't doubt you knowledge & expertise in the electrical field. I'm clearly not in the same playing field.

However you are offering an 'opinion' when saying a 100mA RCD would afford 'additional life saving safety measure'.

No I'm not, it's a simple fact. What is the point of fault protection if not to save life and property???

As I said before, everything I've read and heard recommends the use of 30mA RCD , to try and negate the risk of electrocution. Reg 415.1.1, ...............as additional protection in the event of failure of provision of basic protection and /or the provision for fault protection or carelessness by users.

And as I said before, numerous times, to the point of banging my head against a brick wall, why is additional protection even being mentioned in a discussion about fault protection??? The subject is completely and utterly irrelevant.

I even read a study that suggests that value of little as 20mA, can cause paralysis of respiratory muscles, and can prove fatal.

Good for you.

but that would just be plain rude.

You wanna know what I find rude? You wanna know what gets up my nose?

People who despite their obvious lack of knowledge in a particular subject and despite the fact that others have put time and effort into attempts to educate them correctly regarding that particular subject, are still willing to write off facts as mere 'opinions'.

Suffice to say I personally find one of the most obnoxious things a person can do is to lose the capacity to reason, but claim that it is indeed everyone else that has lost that capacity instead.

There's a very understandable reason why I'm being abrasive towards you Midwest.
 
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To be fair, I'd rather take my chances with a 100ma time delay rcd as protection as opposed to nothing. So it still serves a purpose as both, just more chance of a fatality than with the 30ma.

I know it's to clear a fault if my 30ma fails but as someone who has had a live 415v set of brush gear in my hand as an apprentice, I'd rather it cleared in half a second than wait until the wires burn out. (Luckily the earth was also in the same hand!)
 
No I'm not, it's a simple fact. What is the point of fault protection if not to save life and property???



And as I said before, numerous times, to the point of banging my head against a brick wall, why is additional protection even being mentioned in a discussion about fault protection??? The subject is completely and utterly irrelevant.



Good for you.



You wanna know what I find rude? You wanna know what gets up my nose?

People who despite their obvious lack of knowledge in a particular subject and despite the fact that others have put time and effort into attempts to educate them correctly regarding that particular subject, are still willing to write off facts as mere 'opinions'.

Suffice to say I personally find one of the most obnoxious things a person can do is to lose the capacity to reason, but claim that it is indeed everyone else that has lost that capacity instead.

There's a very understandable reason why I'm being abrasive towards you Midwest.

I take it you wouldn't fancy going down the pub for a pint to discuss then :)

It was a nice discussion till it turned nasty. Think I'll bow out now, before things get silly.
 
They make me nervous Ian, if that electrode connection corrodes or becomes detached that's it, they won't work. I'd always recommend their replacement ASAP, and how do you test one properly apart from the test button, nah best replaced IMO.

I saw one of these at a friends house many years ago, gave the earth cable a tug and the top 6 inches of the rod came out, it had completely corroded. Luckily his water pipe earth was still pretty damn good, he replaced the rod asap all the same but I imagine most TT installations are like that eventually so I check mine regularly, the original is buried under concrete but there are two others (as you can tell, I like backups)
 
trip
I saw one of these at a friends house many years ago, gave the earth cable a tug and the top 6 inches of the rod came out, it had completely corroded. Luckily his water pipe earth was still pretty damn good)

If my memory serves me,they used to have earth connections for rod and frame
If the earth to the rod disappeared,that water pipe earth wouldn't help it trip :eek:
They served their purpose at one time,although they had their weaknesses,but these days,the bin is where they are best sited :)
 
My advice would be to get an electrician to test across Line and Neutral, and if he measures below 0.35 ohms, then there's a good chance that the power company (not supplier) who deals with your network will convert it to a TNC-S system. It may also be that your supply cable even has a lead sheath and can be converted to a TNS system. I have come across both these scenarios many times, and have had several TT systems changed by the network provider. Just be aware that if things are changed, there may be main earthing and bonding work to be done.
 

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