Discuss Where can I get a copy of BS 5839: Part 1:2013 ? in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

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ship69

Hello

I am a house owner. Where can I get a copy of BS 5839: Part 1:2013 ("Fire detection and fire alarm systems for buildings.")?

Many thanks
 
You can only obtain BS books from BSI store or one of the supplied outlets. Copyright is strict, and not available in electronic form. As a home owner why do you require Part 1..?
 
I am extremely unhappy about this situation. We have already paid a lot of money to have a Fire Risk Assessment. And now we are told that we MUST have a fire alarm that complies with the requirements of a "Category L1 system as defined by BS 5839: Part 1:2013 (current edition)", however it appears that the only way to find out what that actually means is to spend a further £284.

And it's no use telling me that BS is only "best practice", the fact of the matter is that if we don't comply then we will be shut down.

Frankly I am disgusted that it appears to in effect cost us money to discover what is the basic law of the land. It's this strikes me as deeply unethical.

I see no reason why anything to do with the law - the things which we MUST comply with should bear copyright. It smacks of capitalism gone mad. It's like paying money to visit the police station. Or paying to find out where I am allowed to park my car.

And it's not like it's only a few pounds. £284 for something that could easily be published and distributed on-line at zero cost for all. What is this?
 
Can you elaborate and forum members might be able to help/comment better. Why do you need an L1 system in a domestic situation? What have you been told?
 
So what exactly is this property is it your own home a business or something else,if it's your home then why are you having a fire risk assessment done
 
Can you elaborate and forum members might be able to help/comment better. Why do you need an L1 system in a domestic situation? What have you been told?
In don't know the details but it could be the size of the property for one.
"Ship69" there is not much point in you buying BS 5839 P1. As stated above, could you give the members some more details of the property.
 
Apologies for the delay.

It is a domestic large house in Scotland with thick walls, that is being converted for use for (usually weekly) holiday lets. The house sleeps up to about 16-20 people. We simply want to comply with the law of the land. No, we do not want to pay money in order to find out what the law of the land is (!!). No, our local library does not have a copy of this BS document.

I don't want to say too much because I do not want this location to be identified. I am told that once we get an official inspection by the authorities then we will be in real trouble but until that happens apparently we are okay.

We definitely do not want to put our guests in any unnecesary danger whatsoever - we simply want to apply common sense.

We do not want to lose the homely feel of the building and wind up with the place feeling like "an institution" with hideous signs and equipment all over the building. i.e. We want to do the absolute minimum that complies with the law.

We have already paid well over £500 to get a local expert to do a Fire Risk Assessment. This expert has 'recommended' a very long list of (extremely expensive) things that we are supposed to do "immediately" including putting automatic door closing mechanisms onto over 25 doors, install emergency escape lights everywhere and install a "Category L1 System", whatever the heck that is.

If we did everything on his list immediately we would be bankrupted.

I feel that the fire regulations is in effect "gravy train" for peole in the industry who have trained up to become "experts" and that the whole subject is wrapped in mistique, complications and disgustingly expensive reports.

Apparently the default suggestion to comply with "L1" would be to dig up the floors and install a "fully wired" system complete with a central panel. This would involve weeks of labour by an electrician and would be horrendously expensive.

We feel that fire alarm technology is improving every year and that currently it still has a very, VERY long way to do. For this reason the longer we can delay the better it will be.

We have looked into installing a wireless alarm system with sensors (that have 10 year batteries) and which can 'daisy-chain' together so that the alarm signal can get from one end of the house to the other without wires. However apparently the system (from Safelinks) can only have 12 sensor units connecting to each other at once, whereas we probably up to need up to say 20 units.

I am no expert but it seems to me that what *ought* to happen is that all sensor units should be able to be given a unique number each and then, when an alarm goes off on any one unit, that it should be able to send both the alarm signal and the unique number of the unit that went off, from sensor-to-sensor-to-sensor around the house. All we would then need is a map of the house somewhere with a list of sensor serial numbers and the problem is solved.

However we don't seem to be able to find a wirelss alarm system that work like this.

Regarding night lights, the cheapest simpliest thing we can thing of is to supply a small (one-handed) self-wind torch beside each bed for guest to use in case of emergency. We will stick labels saying "FIRE TORCH" and "EMERGENY USE ONLY". This will save use many 1000s of GBP.
 
First mains operated interlinked smokes will not comply to bs5839 part 1 L1, as they are part 6 domestic only
The fire alarm if addressable can be installed in 25mm x 16mm white trunking, quite common in guest houses, hotels.
Depending on the way the existing lighting is wired, existing fittings can be replaced by modern led em fittings If lighting is looped, if you replace all corridor lighting to led, you would save 60% in electricity bills alone, and will look alot neater than bulkhead fitting, plus you would get your money back in a few years with the saving. Again at the worst, used trunking again.
I did send you a pm a few weeks ago, offering free help to answer your questions.
 
Can you post the report that you have so we can see what has been recommended, if not your best bet is to speak to TAZZ
 
Quote: We do not want to lose the homely feel of the building and wind up with the place feeling like "an institution" with hideous signs and equipment all over the building. i.e. We want to do the absolute minimum that complies with the law.

This line worries me. What other cost-saving have you done in this property that may result in safety being compromised? No RCD's because you don't want 'all those hideous switches' ?? Daz
 
Yes - yours for £284.00

All we want to do is comply with the law (as well as supply basic common sense facilities if they law is insufficient.
I fail to see why we should spend £284 just to find out what the law of the land is.
dont be silly, its cheap compared to other regulation books.

if i recall correctly the hse regs that you need for a certain size firm costs an arm and a leg

law and medical books are very pricy as well
 
Quote: We do not want to lose the homely feel of the building and wind up with the place feeling like "an institution" with hideous signs and equipment all over the building. i.e. We want to do the absolute minimum that complies with the law.

This line worries me. What other cost-saving have you done in this property that may result in safety being compromised? No RCD's because you don't want 'all those hideous switches' ?? Daz

This is going off-topic but since you ask, we have just installed a modern control box for all the power in the house. I do not know if it contains RCDs but it contains incredibly sensitive trips that will trip if it detects any anomalies.
 
We have all offered you help so may times on the forum and by pm`s, but you dont come forward with the information you just keep moaning about the cost of the BS5839....
 
We do, as a nation, have a lot of H&S to comply with, but in the instance of a let that can house 20 people at a time it is a pretty good application of H&S in my view.

Could you not get 2-3 quotes from companies that may know what the property requires, and tell them you would like the system to be as low key as possible to maintain the 'look' of the building. Would likely cost more money though for low key..

When you decided to run this building as a let, consideration should have been given to fire safety needs.

Door closers are really easy to install by the way. Although it will cost a bit for the closers obviously.

You could read BS5839 ten times but if a certain grade of system is required then it is required, and that is what there FRA has told you. I know very little on this subject may I add.
 
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