woah! Danger present with BG outdoor light switch

[daveb]

Thought i'd share this one that happened to me today....

Was wiring up a customer gazebo with BG weatherproof fittings (light switch, sockets, JB and mains board). Anyway, all went fine and was on to testing the circuits.... circuits all tested fine.

The lighting cables were terminated into a JB for the time being as the customer does not have the lights yet. So, once I had finished and just by chance i thought i would use my voltage pen on the connectors just to prove the light switch was off. Pen lit up but the switch was off? Scratched the head..... used my voltage tester and was getting 108 volts with the switch off!

The BG outfdoor light switch has a neon on it via a resitor on the lead between common and one way terminal..... guessed that this was the problem rather than a faulty switch so removed it which in turn completely removed all voltage when the switch was off.

Very dangerous if you were relying on the switch to isolate the power so thought i would share.

Anyone else come across this before??

 

[Dave OCD]

Interesting one that, wired that way the neon generally glows with the switch in the off position as an aid to locating the switch in the dark then goes off when a load is applied-the lights are on. Maybe this was because you had nothing connected at the load side and therefore a floating voltage ?

 

[Marvo]

Isn't this going to cause a problem with lickering LED lamps as well?

 

[Marvo]

Another reason a neutral in a switch box isn't a bad idea......
(tin hat on)

 

[Dave OCD]

I think that's the best way, connect the neon across the permanent live and neutral, of course the neon won't go out when the switch is on but can't see that being significant.

 

[daveb]

youre correct Dave OCD. The neon was on very faintly when in the off position and at the time i believed it was faulty as it wasnt coming on when switched on.

It obviously was faulty though as it was still giving off 108 volts when off. This would have given you a wee dunt for sure.

 

[Dave OCD]

Yes you'd certainly feel that voltage Dave, I suspect the voltage would disappear once you have the lights fitted though, too knackered right now to explain it properly though.

 

[D00DY_T00DY]

Another reason a neutral in a switch box isn't a bad idea......
(tin hat on)

Recently been wiring our lights via a feed into the switch rather than the lights...
Much better imo

 

[ruston]

It makes more sense now in domestics with the demise of the humble ceiling rose ,and saves on the MF junctions.
I have been doing this for a long time now.

 

[SJD]

Isn't this going to cause a problem with lickering LED lamps as well?

Yes! I had a recent rental property job where they had changed the outside light from halogen to LED, and it didn't turn off completely. This BG switch was the culprit.

 

[D00DY_T00DY]

It makes more sense now in domestics with the demise of the humble ceiling rose ,and saves on the MF junctions.
I have been doing this for a long time now.

Especially with most customers choosing spots as their go to lighting. That first spot with 3/4 cables... not needed.

Viva la neutral at the switch! (the movement group name will need a re think)

 

[daveb]

i think it's mainly an english thing to wire permenant feeds to ceiling roses. We have typically been taught to wire from the switch and not to the ceiling rose. In my opinion its the only way to do it! It is not often i come across the perm live to ceiling method but when i do, it bugs the hell out of me!

 

[Toneyz]

MK switches are the same it has a neutral terminal in it I think that the fitting instructions show fitting neon/switch locator both ways. Thanks for the info on using with LED fittings.

 

[D00DY_T00DY]

It's so great my movement is catching on so quicky never thought it'd go this well.

 

[ruston]

Especially with most customers choosing spots as their go to lighting. That first spot with 3/4 cables... not needed.

Viva la neutral at the switch! (the movement group name will need a re think)

And the Hager switch range is a godsend.

 

[D00DY_T00DY]

And the Hager switch range is a godsend.

Why? Does it have a neutral terminal at the switch?
Are they in on the movement as well?
Our first sponsor! Lol

 

[daveb]

you dont need a switch with a neutral terminal.... connector blocks!!!!

 

[SJD]

I'd rather use a Wago (or similar) m/f connector than try to stuff several neutral wires into one screw terminal.

 

[D00DY_T00DY]

you dont need a switch with a neutral terminal.... connector blocks!!!!

Don't be bad mouthing my movement sponsor.
But yeah connector blocks do the trick. Think the customer is more concerned about how pretty their new shiny switch is rather than if there's a terminal for neutrals.

 

[Marvo]

Kinda interesting to see how the tide is turning with the neutrals in switches debate.