jibspark

Hi All,

A quick question for you all,

if i perform some minor work (falling outside of Part P) in a domestic premesis can i test it as a qualified spark or do i need to have done my 2391?

I seem to remember someone telling me that i would legally qualified to test anything that doesnt fall under the part p umbrella. Just want to double check.

EasyFox

A grey area.
If you are testing any electrical installation you need to be competent to do so.
How do you proove competency?.......well having C&G2391 & 2360/2330 go some way to prooving this competency as does experience in the electrical industry.
If you do some work & it all goes T**'s up & you end up in court for what ever reason, I suspect the first thing you'll be asked is "are you competent to be testing electrical installations", again having a 2391 certificate goes some way to showing that you have the attained the required skills to undertake testing.

As for the legality of testing, it doesn't matter if it's part P or not if competent to do so you can & should (BS7671) test it, but if it's part P notifiable work what you will not be able to do is selfcertify (unless registered with scheme operator) the work upon completion.

Thats how it was explained to me......what you need is ban-all-sheds to give the full run down seem to remember him having a wealth of legal info on this type of stuff.

jibspark

great advice, thankyou. i have my 2330 and NVQ3 but no 2391, i plan to do it in the future but i want a rest from college for a couple of months! so to sume up, i can legally issue minor works certs and periodics for domestic dwellings but it would be better if i had my 2391?

thanks again.

Submains

All the qualifications in the world will not make you competent. The only way is to join a registered organisation and they will assess you and let you use their nice headed inspection forms.
C&G 2381 & 2391 (soon to be changed) are a minimum requirement.

EasyFox

What cobblars
You dont have to be a member of any scheme operators or registered organisations to undertake electrical work & the test inspection of such work or periodics.
If so why do the likes of NICEIC sell the green cert/reports to all unsundry who aren't registered.
Come to that the IEE website has downloadable BS7671 certs/reports for all to use.
Or even copy those from the back of 7671 regs book.

Submains

Yes. Very good.
I'm sure the insurance company will pay the client out after a fire when he produces his certification from a non registered person/organisation. Not.

My mates a good diy'er. He's was fed up with his rewireable fuses blowing all the time so he changes his fuseboard and uprates the his protective devices.
Purchases his green cert (only for non approved contractors) and fills it out.
Cable meltdown follows and small fire strangely starts.

Catch my drift.

EasyFox

Yes I do catch your drift but, as we know your mate is a good diyer & he would be notifying the cu change with LBC before undertaking the work (as is required by part P), then LABC would be inpspecting FF & testing upon completion & certifying said cu change, insurance company is happy (same as if jibspark was to do this work).

Now if your diyer mate was to undertake some minor works that do not need LABC notification such as extend a circuit, & had a fire as a result then his insurance company maywell ask

"Who did the electrical work...you did great, are you a member of any electrical organisation such as niceic...no ok then, wheres the certs, oh they're nice green ones & you've filled them out, are you competent to do so?"

and the answer would have to be a no because your average diyer wouldnt know IR from Zs would they.

But if jibspark being a fully insured selfemployed weekend working sparky did this minor works & the fire still broke out the insurance company would possibly say

"are you a member of any electrical scheme... no ok then, where are the certs, oh they're nice green ones & you've filled them out, are you competent to do so?, right ok you have 2330 / NVQ3 work full time as a spark & you have 2381 & 2391, ok so it seems you are competent to undertake & test this kind work"

What I'm getting at is...just because who ever does the work isnt a member of an organisation doesnt mean they are not competent to do the work , or that an insurance company will not pay out (we all know they will try to squirm out of paying) because an individual or company are not in any electrical organisation.
What the insurance company will do is get one of their assessors (probably niceic registered) in to check over the work to assess if the work has been undertaken & fully complies with BS7671. If the work is ok & complies with 7671 the insurance company are stuffed. If it doesn't comply then the installer is on a sticky wicket & better have some good insurance.


And now I'm off to bed.

Submains

At the end of the day, to be a competent person you need to be assessed. Either by a self-certification scheme or by a registered organisation. Only then will you be deemed in you're competancy to inspect and test electrical installations.


"are you a member of any electrical scheme... no ok then, where are the certs, oh they're nice green ones & you've filled them out, are you competent to do so?, right ok you have 2330 / NVQ3 work full time as a spark & you have 2381 & 2391, ok so it seems you are competent to undertake & test this kind work"

Qualifications alone do not make a legally accepted competent person thats why we pay megabucks to have this title bestowed upon us.

Yes i agree. you do not have to be a member to be competent to undertake any electrical work as long as you're certs are signed by one. Hence part p which is statutory .

EasyFox

I think you are wrong.
Why can a non part P registered spark not do NON- notifiable minor works test the work & issue the required MWC.
And you are right any domestic electrical work needs to comply with part P which in turn means it has to comply with the BS7671 regs....Sooooooooooooooo do the regs state you have to be a scheme/operator member to test/inspect?
Take a look in the brown book the only sections where you find "competent person" in the regs are in part 7 (731-01-03 & 741-01-03 /04)
You DO need to be a member of a scheme/operator to self certify NOTIFIABLE domestic work (or register it before hand & pay the labc fee)


But where in the regs / EAWR or part P does it say this ?
I think you'll find in the part P doc it's some thing along the lines of;
Testing should be carried out by a suitably qualified person (or words to that effect)
"qualified" in this context means having the required QUALIFICATIONS, knowledge & experiance......blah blah (you'll have to read it for the rest.)

leoh187

Hi

I think Submains, you needs to take a look at the wiring regulations. To undertake electrical work (that isn't part P notifiable) you simply need to demonstrate you are "competent". How you do this can vary, its all about taking reasonable steps to ensure you are competent,similar to the HSE regualtions. Joining an organization is just a way of demonstrating that you are competent; but if you can show this by having qualifications, and experience then that is another way.

I hope this helps.

Many Thanks

Leo