Discuss Qualified supervisor in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Welcome to ElectriciansForums.net - The American Electrical Advice Forum
Head straight to the main forums to chat by click here:   American Electrical Advice Forum

I would have to agree with that @Leesparkykent. I was a QS for a company a few years ago with 16 lads, 8 of them were 2391 qualified or higher and only 3 of them could understand testing a ring final circuit and what the test was actually telling them!
The problem is the industry as a whole, it's never going to change! The people at the top are making so much money anyway that they don't care, the people at the bottom don't care either as they are undercutting everyone as they don't have insurance, qualifications, overheads or a clue how to do it properly. Unfortunately this means that all the people in the middle who try and do their best, keep up with qualifications pay into the scams and end up getting raped for the privilege!!
 
Maybe the schemes and the IET should state the maximum number of sparks a QS should manage .....
The NICEIC inspector told us 1 for every 10 sparks, to cover the scope of work we were doing which was mainly s and y plans, spurs for combi boilers and air and ground source heat pumps.
 
both of my previous supervisors were put to shame by me, im insulted to have them inspect my work when its better than anything they could muster

its one of those jobs thats for the bosses rim jobber
 
Nothing to do with the IET.


To an extent I would disagree with you ......... the schemes that operate these systems are operating the IET's guidelines .............. and some of their members are taking the p$ss

The IET could simply issue guidance on the ratio of competent people to QS's companies can expect to operate with

and as we all know lots of sparking by companies is installed by INcompetent people

I think QS's should only over see qualified staff ......
 
What doesn't help is when your M.D. doesn't support you (once he prised open a locked filing cabinet with certs inside with a hammer and made up a book of certs) I had approx 10 electricians to keep an eye on if I came across something that was not right they made it hard /kept info from me as to who had done work (so you couldn't even educate them) refused to get it put right, Told electricians don't tell Ant this job exists I could go on.
 
.... the schemes that operate these systems are operating the IET's guidelines ...

Yes, but I see the IET as a technical authority, nothing to do with Part P or how contractors are organised or supervised.

The IET could simply issue guidance on the ratio of competent people to QS's companies can expect to operate with

Not really their role at all. Surely this should be set out by the government in Approved Document P.

I think QS's should only over see qualified staff ......

I'd go further and say that Part P registration should be by individual as well as by company. ie there should be some (limited) level of registration for individual electricians working for a company.
 
Yes, but I see the IET as a technical authority, nothing to do with Part P or how contractors are organised or supervised.



Not really their role at all. Surely this should be set out by the government in Approved Document P.



I'd go further and say that Part P registration should be by individual as well as by company. ie there should be some (limited) level of registration for individual electricians working for a company.
The way I read the outcome of that report, it is saying that being an Electrician is not a requirement, just as long as you are deemed to be Competent to do the work, which is a Laughable, Ludicrous situation, and the QS will see to it that the work is done correctly, stupid. This is what I think the training Schools have homed in on, how do you quatify competence? Typical of Politicos dabbling in something they know SFA about.
 
Last edited:
The way I understood it the QS is there to check that the paperwork looks OK, dot the Is and cross the Ts, not to babysit someone who should be competent to carry out and test their own work.
If you look at page 5 of the NICEIC rules and regulations booklet and job roles it clearly defines the roles of Principle Duty Holder, qualifying Manager/Supervisor.
The company I worked for before being made to go self employed used me to get their approved status as I was the only one with all the qualifications to hold that role. Plus I had been a QS for 16years prior and Qualifying Manager for 2.5yrs. When he got his certificate hung up on his office wall he called me into the office to tell me he couldn’t afford to pay me and keep me on the books when he was short of work, so I would either have to get another job or go self employed. He employs self employed electricians and the ones left on the cards are all non electricians. The highest qualified is still only graded as an improver in old money as hasn’t done AM2 or nvq level 3. I asked him twice before leaving office how this would affect his full scope accreditation he said it won’t on both times. Then he said to me you obviously know something I don’t so tell me what I don’t know. I turned and left and told him to read his terms and conditions and pay attention to page 5 and role of QS.
A QS is a full time employee of the company who is available at all times apart from holidays or authorised absence / sickness to monitor the installations being carried by the company. Where young or trainee or non qualified persons are employed it’s the QS responsibility to ensure they are being trained and working safely. It is the responsibility of the QS to ensure all electricians or competent persons are carrying out their duties to the regs. If that means having to carry our site visits and monitoring then it is the Principle Duty Holders responsibility to ensure that the QS has time to carry out his duties.
The QS is responsible for all certification and the correct storing and issuing of certificates.
The QS has more responsibility than any other person in the organisation in my book. If the QS believes that any work being carried out is wrong and is pressured to sign off work then he should refuse to sign it himself and I would say he should be writing a letter to NICEIC to that fact and get them to actually do something constructive and put into good use the extortionate amount of money they get paid each year by their members to help their members.
 
Fair enough. But the thing with all of that, is its the NICEIC rules/ guidelines? So what's going to happen, if they are not followed or complied with?
 
If you look at page 5 of the NICEIC rules and regulations booklet and job roles it clearly defines the roles of Principle Duty Holder, qualifying Manager/Supervisor.
The company I worked for before being made to go self employed used me to get their approved status as I was the only one with all the qualifications to hold that role. Plus I had been a QS for 16years prior and Qualifying Manager for 2.5yrs. When he got his certificate hung up on his office wall he called me into the office to tell me he couldn’t afford to pay me and keep me on the books when he was short of work, so I would either have to get another job or go self employed. He employs self employed electricians and the ones left on the cards are all non electricians. The highest qualified is still only graded as an improver in old money as hasn’t done AM2 or nvq level 3. I asked him twice before leaving office how this would affect his full scope accreditation he said it won’t on both times. Then he said to me you obviously know something I don’t so tell me what I don’t know. I turned and left and told him to read his terms and conditions and pay attention to page 5 and role of QS.
A QS is a full time employee of the company who is available at all times apart from holidays or authorised absence / sickness to monitor the installations being carried by the company. Where young or trainee or non qualified persons are employed it’s the QS responsibility to ensure they are being trained and working safely. It is the responsibility of the QS to ensure all electricians or competent persons are carrying out their duties to the regs. If that means having to carry our site visits and monitoring then it is the Principle Duty Holders responsibility to ensure that the QS has time to carry out his duties.
The QS is responsible for all certification and the correct storing and issuing of certificates.
The QS has more responsibility than any other person in the organisation in my book. If the QS believes that any work being carried out is wrong and is pressured to sign off work then he should refuse to sign it himself and I would say he should be writing a letter to NICEIC to that fact and get them to actually do something constructive and put into good use the extortionate amount of money they get paid each year by their members to help their members.
The QS role is a money spinner, there are members on here who canagreeto that fact, many house basher outfits, use people who have the qualifications and experience, and only pay them lip
service. in my view dedicated QS try their hardest, but are g iven very little if any support from their CEOs, I know of one hardworking QS who called their Bosses bluff and was forced to leave the employ, best move he made in my opinion.
 
If you look at page 5 of the NICEIC rules and regulations booklet and job roles it clearly defines the roles of Principle Duty Holder, qualifying Manager/Supervisor.
The company I worked for before being made to go self employed used me to get their approved status as I was the only one with all the qualifications to hold that role. Plus I had been a QS for 16years prior and Qualifying Manager for 2.5yrs. When he got his certificate hung up on his office wall he called me into the office to tell me he couldn’t afford to pay me and keep me on the books when he was short of work, so I would either have to get another job or go self employed. He employs self employed electricians and the ones left on the cards are all non electricians. The highest qualified is still only graded as an improver in old money as hasn’t done AM2 or nvq level 3. I asked him twice before leaving office how this would affect his full scope accreditation he said it won’t on both times. Then he said to me you obviously know something I don’t so tell me what I don’t know. I turned and left and told him to read his terms and conditions and pay attention to page 5 and role of QS.
A QS is a full time employee of the company who is available at all times apart from holidays or authorised absence / sickness to monitor the installations being carried by the company. Where young or trainee or non qualified persons are employed it’s the QS responsibility to ensure they are being trained and working safely. It is the responsibility of the QS to ensure all electricians or competent persons are carrying out their duties to the regs. If that means having to carry our site visits and monitoring then it is the Principle Duty Holders responsibility to ensure that the QS has time to carry out his duties.
The QS is responsible for all certification and the correct storing and issuing of certificates.
The QS has more responsibility than any other person in the organisation in my book. If the QS believes that any work being carried out is wrong and is pressured to sign off work then he should refuse to sign it himself and I would say he should be writing a letter to NICEIC to that fact and get them to actually do something constructive and put into good use the extortionate amount of money they get paid each year by their members to help their members.
My brother had a similar situation with the ECA.
He had all the necessary qualifications for the firm to be registered.
As soon as the firm got registered they got rid of him.
 
My brother had a similar situation with the ECA.
He had all the necessary qualifications for the firm to be registered.
As soon as the firm got registered they got rid of him.
I imagine the case of your Brother is not an isolated case, many unscrupulous opperators follow this method.
 
Been reading through all the replies etc on this thread, and listening to some anecdotes from Friends of Mine (yes I do have a few Friends).

I don't have any practical experience of the CPS, and how they assess companies for admission.
A question comes to mind, is it the assessor who choseswhich jobs to inspect, or does the QS / Boss chose, or pick the works for a particular assessment, because, I can see a flaw if it's the latter, pick a job that was done by a decent tradesman, once we get accepted thats another year, we can muddle by using unskilled labour, is this the norm, I watched Emma Clancy sqiurm a little when the Chairman of the Select Commmitte asked the same sort of question.
 
Been reading through all the replies etc on this thread, and listening to some anecdotes from Friends of Mine (yes I do have a few Friends).

I don't have any practical experience of the CPS, and how they assess companies for admission.
A question comes to mind, is it the assessor who choseswhich jobs to inspect, or does the QS / Boss chose, or pick the works for a particular assessment, because, I can see a flaw if it's the latter, pick a job that was done by a decent tradesman, once we get accepted thats another year, we can muddle by using unskilled labour, is this the norm, I watched Emma Clancy sqiurm a little when the Chairman of the Select Commmitte asked the same sort of question.

Have a guess Pete, heres a clue. Someone has paid alot of money to these companies and the scam wouldnt want them to fail now would they. As I have said previoulsy, all O was asked to do on the only assesment I ever did was a RCD test on a socket circuit, guess what the assesor was that impressed he told me I passed with a “A” rating lol
 
Have a guess Pete, heres a clue. Someone has paid alot of money to these companies and the scam wouldnt want them to fail now would they. As I have said previoulsy, all O was asked to do on the only assesment I ever did was a RCD test on a socket circuit, guess what the assesor was that impressed he told me I passed with a “A” rating lol
I was just wondering Dillb if it was/is the norm, but I can see your point, just really proves that it is a money thing, laughable really, for the person being assessed I would imagine it's nothing more than a formallity, am I right in that assumption, I know you shouldn't assume anything, but it seems that way to me.
 
Yes its all a formality, as you say the scams were squirming at the questions beijg asked as they were worried about their income being rumbled. I have worked for several shopfitting firms over the years and all of their work has been all over the UK, yet when it come to the annual assesment they always had a local rewire to show them.
 

Reply to Qualified supervisor in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

Electrical Forum

Welcome to the Electrical Forum at ElectriciansForums.net. The friendliest electrical forum online. General electrical questions and answers can be found in the electrical forum.
This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by Untold Media. Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock