Discuss French House 3-phase RCD tripping in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Hi All,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

We staying at a family friend's house in france and they are having frequent trips of their electrical system where they turn multiple breakers/the main switch off and on until it comes back on.

Over the last week I've managed to narrow down a possible cause/fix.

I think it is due to a fauly rcd in the consumer unit. When the power tripps it turns off everything in the house and it does not come back on until you cycle the three phase main rcd in the consumer unit.

Strangly this rcd hasnt actually tripped to the off position, you flick it to the off position, wait a second or two and when you put it back to the on position all the power comes back. The fact the rcd hasnt actually moved to the off position but cycling fixes the problem seems very suspicious of a faulty rcd to me.

The power seems to trip when the the hot water tank immersion (less than 2 years old tank) and the dishwasher (brand new) is on amongst fans and other things.

The RCD in question is an ABB F204ac 30mA leakage 40A 3-phase rcd.

We would really appreciate any advice/help!

Thanks,
Alex
 
What earthing system is in place? Are the immersion and dishwasher on the same phase? Could you provide some pictures and confirm bonding to water and gas pipes?

The earth looks like it disappears off down a void in a wall, I presume to some sort of earth rod but not sure.

The imersion looks to be on phase 3, not sure about the kitchen sockets.

French House 3-phase RCD tripping 20180715_093626 - EletriciansForums.net

French House 3-phase RCD tripping 20180715_093633 - EletriciansForums.net
 
How many Kw are they contracted for?

The owners of the house claim problems started after edf changed the meter outside. And they think they dropped their supply power to 6kw from 9kw, and they are trying to get edf to increase their power.

However the disjoncteur is inside the house, never trips and says 25A per phase, which is 17.2kw by my sums

French House 3-phase RCD tripping 20180715_093657 - EletriciansForums.net
 
What colour does the window go when you press the test button and does the toggle only drop halfway.
 
It looks like the immersion heater (chauffe-eau) and dishwasher (lave vaisselle) are on the same phase because they share the same busbar of the middle row of miniature circuit breakers and their's are side by side. The information about the change of meter and onsetof the trip problem afterwards suggests to me a loose connection for Phase 3 and/or the neutral at the new meter which EDF will have to investigate. I think that is the first thing to have checked out and also the connections inside the disjoncteur.

If all checks out correct then you'll need an electrician to check the connections inside the 3 consumer units, do some insulation resistance testing of the house wiring and immersion heater element, confirm the continuity of the circuit protective conductor to the immersion heater and washing machine and clamp the main earth conductor to measure the earth leakage current (- and compare to 30mA).

Do any of the lumieres supplied by the middle row of mcbs ever flicker? Has the dishwasher leaked water or its plug and socket ever been wetted?
 
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Do check there is an earth rod and that there is an earth conductor connected to it. Another thing for the electrician to check. If soil looks dry pour a few gallons of water around it.
 
https://library.e.abb.com/public/25f7108d2ff2713ec1257dd300603c50/2CSC423012B0201.pdf

See page 10/28: I know this is not the RCD fitted in your CU - I cannot find any detailed information on line - but if it is similar to the one on 10/28 then the Contact Position Indicator (CPI) should change colour from red to green when the contacts open on trip. That you do not see this happen nor the blue toggle lever move is very odd and suggests it is faulty. However, I cannot establish for certain whether on trip the blue toggle should flip to the off(0) position. Others might know the detail of ABB RCD operation.
 
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on some of them the toggle may not move from the on position but the internal part will (you would feel free movement between the on position and half way to off position) sometimes it make you think its broken. but they usually have some type of indicator window on them.
still they have to be switched completely off before they can be reset.
 
ABB units are notorious in France for being of the lowest quality and going AWOL, change it to a Hagar or Legrand, or even Siemens, Legrand are available in any of the Brico sheds.
 
For any UK people living in France or with a holiday home, this is almost essential reading: L'installation électrique - D.Fedullo, T.Gallauziaux - 6ème édition - Librairie Eyrolles - https://www.eyrolles.com/BTP/Livre/l-installation-electrique-9782212674941/ all in French, but easy to understand, profusely illustrated.

Amendment five to the regulations: are that each phase of a three phase installation, when used as single phase, must have its own RCD in addition to the Three phase RCD see here: https://www.promotelec-services.com/librairie/fichier/montrerPdf/extrait_pages43-44_lh-2016.pdf
 
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