Help required with identification

max headroom · Jul 16, 2018

Hello and thank you for reading, I have been a member for a while but not posted for well over a year or so. I have moved into a new (old) house and the home report said the electrics were good so i never questioned or looked in the electric cupboard. Now i haven't had any problems its more that i am curious.

Its all come about after moving into and old property (was an old farm house) and they previous owner left behind a log saw. This saw would be about 12 years old, would have been brand new but has never been used. As i will be using logs this would be ideal for me but the only problem being is that the machine came from Germany it has a hefty 400v (which I'm presuming is 3 Phase) motor. I believe the previous owner bought it back with him when he moved in not realising the voltage and hence not being used. I've been looking at getting it going or changing the motor but because of the size of it it is looking to be quite an expensive project.

Moving on... i had to take pics of the meter readings and i have never seen this setup in a hose before. Could it be that i have more than just single phase as i know some properties do. I,ve attached some pics so if anyone can tell me if this is a normal sort of setup for a larger property. Obviously you can see the fuse box, the other whitish box is another fuse box and the little white label reads 2nd phase to off peak fuses.

Also, if i do have more than single phase, would it be possible for an electrician to utilise this and put an industrial style socket in the wood store so i could use the log saw. Thank you.

telectrix · Jul 16, 2018

you only have single phase. ( 1 DNO fuse). might be an idea to get a single phase -3 phase converter for the saw. these guys are very helpful if yo tell them your requirements.
Single to Three Phase Converter - https://www.simplypowersupply.com/Single-to-3-Phase-Converter/default.aspx

max headroom · Jul 16, 2018

Thank you Telectrix, i think i've been down that route. i think the downfall was cost, something like £1200. The machine is only £600-800 complete so i've got a cut off point of about £350 ish to make it worthwhile. The motor is 4Kw and on the link for that size its £999+vat. I'm starting to realise why he left the machine in the first place. Thank you for the reply

telectrix · Jul 16, 2018

might be cheaper to swap the motor for a single phase unit.

ipf · Jul 16, 2018

Earthing looks a bit dicey, to me. Supply coming down metal conduit with earth picked up. Cut out wiring looks strange. Is it TT? and are there 3 browns in the conduit?

max headroom · Jul 17, 2018

Hello IPF, There are 3 wires coming out of the conduit. The wire marked A which goes to the 100a isolator(or whatever it is called), b goes to the grey box next to it. Both A and B are wound in a brownish cloth tape. There is another wire marked C, this is a grey plastic outer containing a red inner and goes up to another isolator thingy marked D next to the meter but there are no other wires are coming out of D unless they are behind the board which I doubt. Both Isolators thingies are sealed.

DPG · Jul 17, 2018

Is the 'C' cable an additional concentric feed from somewhere?
Where does the earth on that conduit go to?

ipf · Jul 17, 2018

That 'D thingy' is another cut out fuse. Looks like you have 2 supplies (phases, maybe)….original off peak, perhaps.
As DPG indicates, earth on the conduit is the main question. Where does it originate?....which end of the conduit?

Richard Burns · Jul 17, 2018

The supply you have there is not totally standard but not too far off.
There are some slightly more industrial parts than would usually be found in a domestic house.
You appear to have a second phase (but not a third phase, which you would need for the saw) coming into the property but not connected (at D) to anything.

The main supply has been split but does not appear to have enough neutral cables compared to the lines. Line and neutral are somewhat conventional for the two plastic boards, the split of the neutral before the meter is not conventional.
The isolator with the silver handle looks like it has two lines coming into it but no neutral but this may be just a visual trick of the cables crossing over. The single neutral appears to go directly to the far left box. (If this is the case this not acceptable in a domestic situation)

The earthing at the conduit coming in, which goes over to the far left box and also goes downward on a new earth cable to somewhere else, perhaps an earth rod. The silver earths may rejoin on the left hand side of the back board but they appear to be only connected to the MEM boxes and the Fuses box.
The cut out has a conventional TNCS earth that only appears to earth the two plastic DBs. This means there may be two different earthing systems in place.

There are unsheathed cables accessible which is not a safe arrangement.

DPG · Jul 17, 2018

Some good observations from Mr Burns.

westward10 · Jul 17, 2018

The MEM Exel isolator which then feeds the contactor then the MEM Memway dist board is almost certainly just double-pole from its square shape, not fused. What is most unusual is the Wylex Standard dist board above the contactor enclosure, it would appear to be two way but has no isolator which I have never seen before. I suspect it is fusing the OP control circuit.

ipf · Jul 17, 2018

I've never seen one of those before either.
Has anyone noticed that '2 phase to off peak fuses' NOTICE?

Could account for an original 3 phase supply, before alteration.

max headroom · Jul 17, 2018

First of all, can i thank you all for your time you've taken to reply and a special mention to Mr burns for his detailed picture. If its any further help for any of you who are now just curious, as said earlier this was an old farm house, it was then bought and as far as i can gather it was destined to be(after extensions and refurb) to be a residential conference centre. Well the centre never happened and it just reverted to a large-ish house so this might explain my strange electric cupboard.

Lucien Nunes · Jul 17, 2018

What is most unusual is the Wylex Standard dist board above the contactor enclosure, it would appear to be two way but has no isolator which I have never seen before.

I've never seen one of those before either.

I think I know what this is, although I've never seen one either. I've been looking for one for the museum for ages. Back in the day, Wylex used to offer a version of their small CU's called the 'Extenso', which had outgoing terminals on the busbar. If there was a later need to add more circuits, rather than replacing the CU, the matching extension unit (without a main switch) could be added on, picking up its feed from the existing main switch. There was a sticky label inside the lid of the Extenso pointing out the purpose of the terminals and showing the main and extension units mounted side by side.

I don't seen any reason to assume that there was ever a 3-phase supply. The OP mentions a farmhouse, although it's not clear whether it's this house. If so, and it's rural, it might be a 240/480 split-phase service, or if it's urban it might have 2 out of 3 phases after conversion from an old 3-wire DC service.

westward10 · Jul 17, 2018

Well found Lucien never seen or heard of these.

SparkySy · Jul 18, 2018

I have see and removed those extenso units before actually just a few weeks ago as it happens! (Top middle next to the wylex board) I agree that it could be split phase as Lucien pointed out, I live on a farm in a rural area that still has a split phase supply for the feed mill and other implements.

SparkySy · Jul 18, 2018

I have see and removed those extenso units before actually just a few weeks ago as it happens! (Top middle next to the wylex board) I agree that it could be split phase as Lucien pointed out. I live on a farm in a rural area that still has a split phase supply for the feed mill and other implements.

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