Discuss Emergency Bulkhead Operation? in the Lighting Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Welcome to ElectriciansForums.net - The American Electrical Advice Forum
Head straight to the main forums to chat by click here:   American Electrical Advice Forum

It is normal for a lamp to illuminate when a dead starter is removed as starters basically work by breaking a circuit.

The other fitting which it appears to work in will probably have a much newer lamp in it, or be a lot warmer because it had been on fir a while.

Just put a new lamp and starter in and see if it works.

Sure, but I'm trying to avoid unnecessary costs and another trip to the hardware store.

Sorry, but I'm on a tight budget. Loads of other work needing done. Like I mentioned, the emergency side of this particular fitting is now redundant. I'm just trying to gain a better understanding of these types of fittings.

Shared knowledge from all you good folk is priceless, sustainable, and much appreciated.
 
I'm worried we're in danger of getting a little off topic.

Fact list...

  • The 2D bulb is good.
  • The starter is good.
  • The supply is good.
  • 4 pin 2D bulbs require an external ballast.
  • This 4 pin 2D bulb works without a "cork sized" starter.
  • The 6W florescent lamp is missing.

You have said it comes on when the starter is removed, but not said whether it then switches on and off correctly without the starter fitted?

How do you know that the 2D lamp is good? Is it brand new or has it been in the fitting for a period of time?

As fit testing emergency lights, this is done by switching off the permanent live supply.
 
Sure, but I'm trying to avoid unnecessary costs and another trip to the hardware store.

Sorry, but I'm on a tight budget. Loads of other work needing done.

Surely the time you are spending swapping used parts between different light fittings is costing more than a new lamp and starter?
 
In that case i have no idea lol, bin it :D

Ha! No worries. That makes at least 2 of us. Fact is, the light works as well as I need it to now, i.e. when it gets dark, the light comes on.

I was just foxed by why (apparently) a good starter was somehow interfering with a perfectly good bulb.

Similar emergency bulkheads in other parts of the building do need the emergency element to work, so if something happens to one of those, if I can crack this conundrum, then I'm better placed to fix them.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
 
You have said it comes on when the starter is removed, but not said whether it then switches on and off correctly without the starter fitted?

How do you know that the 2D lamp is good? Is it brand new or has it been in the fitting for a period of time?

As fit testing emergency lights, this is done by switching off the permanent live supply.

It's on a photocell linked circuit, so I'll know if it switches off in the morning. And I'll know if it switches back on once it gets dark again. I don't have any doubts that's exactly what will happen.

The 2D lamp was brand new. The old one fell out and smashed on the ground due to someone whacking the defuser and dislodging it from the connector. It's a long story, but the property has been "under siege" recently.

As for testing the emergency side of the circuit, that's exactly my understanding, i.e. kill mains supply and visually check each fitting. Was just checking if there was something I could check at an individual fitting level.

Thanks. Good points raised.
 
You okay now? Hopefully.

Okay, so what's the answer to the question? If you don't know, that's fine. I don't know either.
Hi, if you look at a starter it is vertually a link of wire, there is a tiny wire, when the juice is turned on the wire heats rapidly and bends away which allows the juice to flow through. When you turn on a fluorescent tube, the starter is a closed switch. The filaments at the ends of the tube are heated by electricity, and they create a cloud of electrons inside the tube. The fluorescent starter is a time-delay switch that opens after a second or two. When it opens, the voltage across the tube allows a stream of electrons to flow across the tube and ionize the mercury vapor (I didn't write this) it takes vertually no time to do so and whilst it is doing this the tubes flickers as the juice is going through.

If the starter is faulty the wire can already be fused or melted together, but the power isn't enough immediately to strike the lamp as it is not there straight away, hence the choke, and the gas in the end of the tubes are still heating, however as the wire is already shorted power is getting to the end and when you remove the starter the action does actually spark the unit into life due to how it is explained above. When you put the starter back in the fact it is broken can inhibit the flow even though the wire is fused together.

The starter may work on other fittings if the control gear is in tip top condition, however this will be very temporary as the starter is actually knackered. Your lamp and starter were kanckered in your light, now both have been replaced it will be fine. Throw the starter in the bin.
 
That type of emergency luminare is not seen too often now and is known as a sustained fitting.

Thanks. I've seen it called "maintained" elsewhere. As far as I understand, the difference between maintained and non-maintained is non-maintained is lit ONLY when emergency conditions are met.

I had a quick search and I don't think the manufacturer even exists now.

As you can see in the image "sustained" is on the description.

View attachment 45784
 
Sustained is different from maintained but I cannot remember the last time I saw a sustained fitting in use or for sale.
 
Hi, if you look at a starter it is vertually a link of wire, there is a tiny wire, when the juice is turned on the wire heats rapidly and bends away which allows the juice to flow through. When you turn on a fluorescent tube, the starter is a closed switch. The filaments at the ends of the tube are heated by electricity, and they create a cloud of electrons inside the tube. The fluorescent starter is a time-delay switch that opens after a second or two. When it opens, the voltage across the tube allows a stream of electrons to flow across the tube and ionize the mercury vapor (I didn't write this) it takes vertually no time to do so and whilst it is doing this the tubes flickers as the juice is going through.

If the starter is faulty the wire can already be fused or melted together, but the power isn't enough immediately to strike the lamp as it is not there straight away, hence the choke, and the gas in the end of the tubes are still heating, however as the wire is already shorted power is getting to the end and when you remove the starter the action does actually spark the unit into life due to how it is explained above. When you put the starter back in the fact it is broken can inhibit the flow even though the wire is fused together.

The starter may work on other fittings if the control gear is in tip top condition, however this will be very temporary as the starter is actually knackered. Your lamp and starter were kanckered in your light, now both have been replaced it will be fine. Throw the starter in the bin.

Brilliant. Very informative.

Although, just one small correction. The 2D bulb works fine without a starter. There's almost definitely an electronic ballast in the unit, and that must be acting as a starter. Maybe?

I've seen evidence of dodgy starter working the tube by jiggling it. I wondered why this was the case.

So, it has a mechanical element to it that responds to current. Never would have guessed that.
 
Sustained is different from maintained but I cannot remember the last time I saw a sustained fitting in use or for sale.

Fair point. This unit must be around 25 years old. The entire property was refitted that long ago. The factor did nothing (but bill everyone) in that period of time, hence they got the sack many moons ago.
 
As you say there is an electronic ballast in there I wonder if that has been retrofitted at some point and whoever did it has incorrectly left the starter connected so it interferes with the correct operation.
 
Why not just convert it to take a retrofit LED 2D lamp 12w =28watts got a Kosnic one the other day £20 +VAT (Denmans) take out gear for 2D part put L&N fly leads from the terminal block to lamp holder as shown on the box,2 minutes.
 
Hi, if you look at a starter it is vertually a link of wire, there is a tiny wire, when the juice is turned on the wire heats rapidly and bends away which allows the juice to flow through. When you turn on a , the starter is a closed switch.


The starter description is not quite correct. The starter is two seperated metal contacts in a neon gas bulb. when voltage is applied the neon gas glows heating the contacts which bend towards and eventually touch allowing the current to flow. When touching the contacts cool ( no glowing gas ), straighten, and break contact. This is when the fluorescent tube comes on. If the fluorescent tube is a good one the voltage across the starter is now below a level that will make it glow and stops it from switching again. If the tube is at the end of its life the voltage across the starter might be enough to keep it cycling on and off, causing the fluorescent tube to go off and on. I allways find it helps when diagnosing faults to know how and why things work.
 

Reply to Emergency Bulkhead Operation? in the Lighting Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc
This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by Untold Media. Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock