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Discuss 16mm T&E to Consumer Unit in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. hogey
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    hogey EF Member

    Location:
    birkenhead
    Afternoon everyone, I've just been to a neighbours house who has just her home completely done up as the foundations are shot. The house has been rewired and in doing so the consumer unit has been moved to one side of the house (the main fuse is outside on the other side of house). I've gone to swap a light fitting over for her and have noticed the elec contractor who's rewired it has used 16mm t&e supply. The cable is buried within the wall so not sure what protection they've used, i might dig out some of the plaster to see. The main fuse is an 80A (the seal has been cut off the fuse carrier so i checked). There are 1 x 10mm for shower, 1 x 10mm for cooker, 1 x 10mm for hob, 3 x ring circuits, 1 x radial and 3 x lighting circuits. The job must have been signed off already and I haven't done any cable calcs yet but it just doesn't sit right with me. Has anyone came across this before? Opinions? Thanks in advance.

    Ste
     
  2. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    How far does the cable run, how is it installed, has it been given circuit protection, where are the main protective bonds connected.
     
  3. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    When was it rewired?
     
  4. hogey
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    hogey EF Member

    Location:
    birkenhead
    It has been rewired within the last 6 months. The cable run must be 15m give or take, bonding comes from the main earth block at meter cupboard, no RCD on the 16mm T&E though (sorry was meant to say that), it's wired into a separate DP iso, i think 100A but will double check.
     
  5. onions1066
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    onions1066 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Nottingham
    Have they run a separate earth?
     
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  6. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    So have they provided circuit protection or are they relying on the service head fuse.
     
  7. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    Won't need one.
     
  8. onions1066
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    onions1066 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Nottingham
    If it's come straight from the head on a tncs? Why is that
     
  9. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    I am assuming circuit protection has been provided though that is not clear and main protective bonds are not at the CU.
     
  10. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    Need more info
     
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  11. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    A quick referral to table 4D5, suggests the best ccc for 16mm tw&e is 85a (clipped direct). So with 15m negotiating through the house, can't see how its ever going to suffice? And as it buried in a wall, chances are without earthed steel plate capping, its going to need additional protection

    Seen it may a time mind.
     
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  12. 7029 dave
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    7029 dave Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    bedfordshire
    I have connected up new builds weeks ago, subs still being run in 16mm t&e.?
     
  13. Risteard
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    Risteard Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Derry, Ireland
    Business Name:
    Walsh Electrical Services
    How is the T&E connected at the origin? Because the way I'm picturing it there will be non-sheathed conductors outside of any enclosure or containment at that point.
     
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  14. Ian1981
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    Ian1981 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    North east
    Probably used the old favourite method of tape:(
     
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  15. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    Looks like we aren't going to find out.
     
  16. 7029 dave
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    7029 dave Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    bedfordshire
    or a switch fuse, with one of them fancy covers.
     
  17. hogey
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    hogey EF Member

    Location:
    birkenhead
    Hi Guys, sorry haven't had chance to reply... Yes they have taken a separate 16mm earth from main earth block to the C.U. The 16mm T&E goes from a 100A iso just past the meter to the C.U. inside the house, it's not a great job tbh... I'll upload a pic. Point still remains that IMHO 16mm T&E isn't fit for purpose in this instance. I don't really wanna get involved as haven't done any work there and its a ballache to rectify but i guess it's my duty...
     
  18. hogey
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    hogey EF Member

    Location:
    birkenhead
  19. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    That is a proper lash up. No circuit protection, cpc incorrectly sleeved and conductor insulation exposed at the switch.
     
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  20. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    Winner !
     
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  21. Rpa07
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    Rpa07 2000 posts - only 46379 behind Telectrix! Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Bristol
    Business Name:
    Ebenezer electrical
    What a difference a day makes - you don't need photos westie, you just 'sense' it!
     
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  22. Ian1981
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    Ian1981 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    North east
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  23. hogey
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    hogey EF Member

    Location:
    birkenhead
    Ha your not kidding... Can't believe thats someones work thats been put on the customer through the insurance company!! What would you recommend, 25mm SWA on an RCD?
     
  24. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    When was it done because I would be on to the insurance company. Providing fault protection parameters are met a swa cable, assuming it is installed correctly would not require additional rcd protection.
     
  25. davesparks
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    davesparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    guildford
    Well it's not often you see a new TNS service to a domestic dwelling these days!
     
  26. hogey
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    hogey EF Member

    Location:
    birkenhead
    It was wired about 6 months ago. I had a little chip away of the plaster where it comes through the wall, it is in metal capping. Time to bite the bullet today though. The poor women has been through enough with the insurance company, she has fought them for near 10 years to get the foundations and house fixed so this sums them up!!! Would you just use 25mm swa and keep the 100A isolator as the circuit protection?

    Thanks again chaps
     
  27. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    No it will need circuit protection. Can you contact the contractor then his/her scheme provider.
     
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  28. davesparks
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    davesparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    guildford
    An isolator does not provide any protection, it is just an isolator. You need an ocpd.
    I doubt that I'd use 25mm SWA unless this was a very large house with a high demand.
    A 63A submain with 10mm SWA is normally sufficient for a domestic installation.
     
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  29. hogey
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    hogey EF Member

    Location:
    birkenhead
    Yeah like a fused isolation switch, I'm with you. Going to get onto the insurance company regarding it. Nice one fellas.
     
  30. anthonybragg
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    anthonybragg Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    NORTHAMPTON
    Business Name:
    CHARLTEC ELECTRICAL LTD
    need a kmf switch fuse with shield I had to look twice unusual to see TNS NOT TNC-S.
     
  31. onions1066
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    onions1066 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Nottingham
    You sure that's TNS ?????
     
  32. anthonybragg
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    anthonybragg Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    NORTHAMPTON
    Business Name:
    CHARLTEC ELECTRICAL LTD
    No, however there is normally PME sticker and earth coming from earth terminal on cut out never seen done like this before
     
  33. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    Does look like TNCS to me...
     
  34. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    Hard to say I would say someone has connected somewhat unconventional.
     
  35. 7029 dave
    Online

    7029 dave Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    bedfordshire
    I can not see any earth lead for the head or sheath. ?
     
  36. 7029 dave
    Online

    7029 dave Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    bedfordshire
    Just looked again looks like its poking from the bottom out of the cut out.? pme?
     
  37. anthonybragg
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    anthonybragg Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    NORTHAMPTON
    Business Name:
    CHARLTEC ELECTRICAL LTD
    if you can't tell that's saying something take it you've not seen cut out earth done this way ?
     
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  38. 7029 dave
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    7029 dave Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    bedfordshire
    ITS WRONG FELLA.
     
  39. 7029 dave
    Online

    7029 dave Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    bedfordshire
    The met is the cover adjacent to the fuse, if it is genuinely NE linked the earth lead should exit that way.
     
  40. anthonybragg
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    anthonybragg Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    NORTHAMPTON
    Business Name:
    CHARLTEC ELECTRICAL LTD
    That's the way I known it to be not sure what's gone on here
     
  41. davesparks
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    davesparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    guildford
    It's TNS, that's a split concentric cable coming in with the earth strands being brought out of the bottom of the cutout into a separate single pole Henley block (a genuine Henley series 7 one)
    That Henley block MET will have been supplied by the DNO.

    I've had a couple done exactly like this by SSE on service alterations where they have maintained the TNS service.
     
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  42. davesparks
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    davesparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    guildford
    Yes, that's a split concentric cable (much bigger than CNE cable) with the earth strands brought out of the bottom of the cutout.

    On,y difference to way I've seen it done before is that they've added some g/y tape, I usually see it with bare copper strands.
     
  43. CACJL
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    CACJL EF Member

    Location:
    SOUTHAMPTON
    Under wall heating.
     
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  44. chris day
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    chris day Regular EF Member

    Location:
    london
    Business Name:
    Chris peter
    OmyDays its normally the supply authority who have a terrible installation, a sub main with no mechanical protection burred in wall with no RCD on a 100a fuse.

    I have never seen such a bad consumer install on a new service head, i know what you mean i would just price accordingly mate.
     
  45. anthonybragg
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    anthonybragg Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    NORTHAMPTON
    Business Name:
    CHARLTEC ELECTRICAL LTD
    This is how my old boss kept on telling the electricians to do it either 16mm T &E down cavity with polystyrene insulation or behind dot and dab although a KMF switch fuse was fitted it often had a 100A fuse fitted. The problem got worse when consumer unit had to be put at part M height yes you've guessed it down wall , I kept on telling him it did not comply the NICEIC kept on telling him in the end we both gave up. Removal from the approval roll .
     
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