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Discuss 17th and part p advice in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. glenandem
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    glenandem Guest

    hi guys ive just found the forum and thought id say hi firstly and jump straight in with my questions!
    im currently working with my dad whos a builder and i used to be a mechanic untill recently before i decided to go working with him,i mainly fit bathrooms and kitchens for him and do odd jobs here and there however neither of us are qualified as electricians so we have to get somone in when we need something other than replacing switches etc as i believe were allowed to do as like for like?
    anyway im looking to become part p so i can sign off work and start doing our own wiring installations etc,i believe i need to do the 17th edition test then do part p after this if this is correct?
    i have the red book although wondering is it worth getting the green update book for the test and future referance, i also have the on site guide which i find quite helpfull!
    i plan on doing the test by itself than doing the part p bit on a course,is the 17th as easy as people say it is to pass,i believe you can take the book in to refer to so that must be a big help!
    any advice would be greatly recieved!
    thanks
     
  2. tonycoysh
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    tonycoysh Guest

    I don't want to get involved in any rants about 5WW's etc.. But to me it sounds more like you ought to be doing the 17th and then the Domestic Installer Scheme. Then join the scheme. If you have no experience in testing and inspection then just doing your 17th edition and joining a part p scheme is going to leave you a bit out of your depth I fear, even if you did get accepted. Surely your Dad must know some sparky's you might be able to spend a bit of time with?

    On the other hand I should say. Don't bother doing any of it, pay a sparky, times are tight, share the work about :wink_smile:
     
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  3. TaffyDuck
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    TaffyDuck Electrician's Arms

    I dread to think where this thread is going, let me guess :95:
     
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  4. Engineer54
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    Engineer54 Guest

    I really don't believe what i'm reading here!!!! Are people that Daft, to think that being an electrician is that simple?? This guy is not even that interested in being an electrician, he's only mainly interested in being able to sign off work that him and his dad will start taking on with his building work business!! The really sad part of all this is, that these scheme providers will allow him to do this, ...very organisations that were put in place to certify competency!!!! Your all being sold down the river, and being treated as cash cows while their doing it....

    How does this make you feel, all you experienced and Qualified Electricians out there, that's spent the time to get where you are now?? Frankly i find this is just insulting!!! It also shows just how far down the slippery path, the status of an electrician has fallen. Seems like anyone and everyone thinks they can easily become an electrician in a matter of a couple day's or weeks....
     
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  5. Knobhead
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    Knobhead Guest

    Insulting just doesn’t sum it up ! ! ! !

    The fact I can’t legally install a light fitting in my own house, but then at the same time I can guarantee a 4MW switchboard is pushing me to the limit.

    I have no interest in domestic work but to be told I’m incompetent to put a wall light in my own place is going beyond the pail ! ! ! !


    No dig at you E54, you are one of the few that know how I feel!


    40 years experience is worth Jack ****!
     
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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2012
  6. Knobhead
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    Knobhead Guest

    I'm going to take 4 more tablets now ! ! ! !

    [edit]

    6
     
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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2012
  7. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

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    my advice is to do what you are capable of, like for like replacements, and get a qualified spark in for everything else. how would you feel if all us sparkys started building extensions, undercutting your price?
     
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  8. keefy
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    keefy Guest

    I think the main problem here is the fact that replacing switches and sockets is easy, I taught my son when he was 10 to replace light switches, a few years later he was doing a socket. Don't be too alarmed by this as it was in my own house and I checked it all.

    My point is that bit is very easy, unfortunately there is a huge jump to being competant to wire up your own bits, especially modifications. You need to understand what is in place befohand and experience of replacing switches won't cut it.

    I spend many hours putting right what others have cocked up, mostly down to people thinking that all electrical work is easy, it isn't. The question is one of conscience, if you are happy to do the electrical work in order to earn a little more money and take the risk that things won't go wrong, go right ahead and do what many have done before you. One warning is that one day something will go wrong, I can guarantee it will and you may give someone an electric shock. The next warning is you will need to find someone to put it right, I for one refuse this kind of work and I suspect many qualified electricians will too.

    The legal stance is that you need to be 'competant' under EAWR, qualifications will go someway to that but even I can be prosecuted if I make a big mistake. To be truly competant as a qualified electrician you need to work with qualified electricians for many years and gain from there experience, otherwise you will never be truly competant and will never be an electrician.

    The other option is simply get someone in to take the risk away, if things go wrong, you make the call it gets sorted. That's why I take my car to a garage!

    Finally thanks for having the consideration to ask rather than just go on and do it.
     
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  9. glenandem
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    glenandem Guest

    hi guys cheers for replys and understand alot of your problems however its not my fault the people who make these qualifications and courses easy to pass in a few days or weeks,maybe you should be putting in complaints to the organisations who regulate it?
    im not somone who doesnt know nothing about the electrics in houses,im not saying i know it all,far from it and i bet half of you have to consult the on site guide book every now and then to check things are done properly, ive been doing things helping the electrician my father employed to do properly and sign off, ive fitted quite a few consumer units,house rewires,basic lights and plug wiring and alarms wired smoke dets showers etc and feel confident and safe enough to work on my own once qualified especially as i will have the book to help guide me etc.
    to be honest i will only be swapping like for like mainly but every now and then we have to do the rewires etc and move sockets etc in kitchens.
    i really do appreciatte your quierys and hope maybe the industry changes for the better but thats not my problem and im not going to argue with you on here,im looking for advice on the 17th and part p, like are they hard to do etc and no bodys answered if its worth getting the green book for the updates or just stick with the red book etc?
    any advice on this would be great and i hope you guys who dont like the way the industry is get somewhere with your complaints to the related organisations!
     
  10. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

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    fair comment. in answer to your question, the 17th is not difficult as long as you have a reasonable knowledge . the course is available at a lot of colleges for around £240, 12 evenings at 2 hours per. you will need the new ( green ) regs. and the OSG. it's an open book exam, online. as for part p, there is no qualification as such, as it's a building regulation. once you have the 17th 2382-10, then you can apply to elecsa or whatever to become part p reg. just part with your £400 odd.
     
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  11. glenandem
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    glenandem Guest

    thanks for replying back to my queries, quite hepfull there pal i didnt know you could just apply for part p, i thought it was a course with a test!
    if thats the case surely the relevant governing organisations do need to look at the way the industry is regulated.
    when i was looking at what courses i needed to do to legally work on domestic electrics it seems to be slightly confusing with different ways of getting qualified and seems you can basically pay your way without having a great deal of experience, i foind it crazy that you can pass without having to do like two years of training etc like i did as a mechanic just to get that qualification then the learning comes with experience?
    anyway cheers pal and any other advice would be great, one final question i do have is,say i get 17th and part p,do i need to get registered with niceic to sign installations off etc?
     
  12. highspark
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    highspark Electrician's Arms

    Get the bleach on your way out
     
  13. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

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    one final question i do have is,say i get 17th and part p,do i need to get registered with niceic to sign installations off etc?

    forget " getting" part p. you need 17th, 2382-10. then you can apply to niceic,elecsa or napit. you will, however need to be competent to test/inspect and fill in certs. and to have at least 1 major job for assessment. once accepted by one of the scams, then you will be part p approved.
     
  14. glenandem
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    glenandem Guest

    cheers pal,is it not 2382-12 now though??
     
  15. trev
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    trev Regular EF Member

    The course you're thinking of is the EAL Domestic Installers Certificate.
     
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