18th ed Arc Fault Devices - £120 each!

[Octopus]

Time to bend their ear I think. If enough of us send the same letter/email they may have to take notice.

Hum - take a read of this link ....

Interview with John Bradley, Chair of JPEL/64 - https://electrical.------.org/wiring-matters/issues/55/interview-with-john-bradley-chair-of-jpel64/

And pay close attention to the response to this question:

"Can you please take us through your background through to your appointment as Chair of JPEL/64?"

Words like "conflict" and "interest" spring to mind

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Be carful of what you say in jest

Tell me about it.
I really wish I hadn’t mentioned AFFDs to Mark Coles now.
Just cos he’s the IET technical regulations manager now, thinks he knows it all.

 

[netblindpaul]

Spin,
Don't be hard on yourself, the manufacturers were pressing for AFDD's and between them and Certsure, they are the controlling interest on JPEL64.

 

[netblindpaul]

Time to bend their ear I think. If enough of us send the same letter/email they may have to take notice.

Only if it is done during a DPC cycle, else they will take no notice, they are not allowed to, and the DPC cycle for this, the 18th, and Amd1 has already finished.
You will need to watch for the DPC for Amd2 and see what you can influence.
I personally put in over 100 comments on the 18th DPC, but Amd1 was sneaked in under my radar.

 

[mattg4321]

I commented on the 18th, and what a nightmare that was. Designed to be awkward to comment on in my opinion. I doubt they even bother reading the comments, much less consider them.

 

[netblindpaul]

I commented on the 18th, and what a nightmare that was. Designed to be awkward to comment on in my opinion. I doubt they even bother reading the comments, much less consider them.

I know that they did read the comments, and yes, the difficulty was reflected back to both BSI & JPEL64.

 

[mattg4321]

I know that they did read the comments, and yes, the difficulty was reflected back to both BSI & JPEL64.

So they sent in the 1st Amendment under the radar? To be honest I wasn't even aware a draft had been released. Too busy trying to save up to pay for the 18th probably!

Either way they clearly didn't act upon the feedback they received.

 

[netblindpaul]

So they sent in the 1st Amendment under the radar? To be honest I wasn't even aware a draft had been released. Too busy trying to save up to pay for the 18th probably!

Either way they clearly didn't act upon the feedback they received.

They did for some of the issues in the 18th, energy efficiency is now an Appendix, it was going to be a section, but that has sprouted a new standard that we will have to buy and it will be more expensive than BS 7671.
It is also why the earth rod "thing" was delayed.

 

[JK-Electrical]

Time to bend their ear I think. If enough of us send the same letter/email they may have to take notice.

Even if we were to descend upon IET Towers en masse with torches and pitchforks, we would still be ignored.

 

[mydigitalhome]

I was on a seminar yesterday morning where the 18th was discussed and speaker already had his book. Anyway he commented that 411.3.4 All circuits must be 30mA protected. Clause 443 Surge Protection will be standard on all installs. 521.10.202 wiring systems supported everywhere with non flamible fixings. Arc Protection that his stance was to add them to Design Deviations due to them being too new to the market and manufacturers not being fully set up for them. 2021 Regs book, earth rods install will become part of the standard install for all installations. Laboured on the fact before starting any work even before demolition works its mandatory to check the earthing arrangement first, to prove safe. I gather we have been spared loads on energy efficiency at this point however advised us to look at BS60364-8-2 as this is a taster for what is to come.
As I personally have not received my book yet I cant comment further.

 

[Toneyz]

As it seems that only me and Pete are going to the Northampton one from the forum I'll make sure he takes notes.

 

[Rpa07]

Take his cork screw away at the entrance then!

As it seems that only me and Pete are going to the Northampton one from the forum I'll make sure he takes notes.

I just bought my cake to take but having eaten half already I don’t think it’ll make it to the showing!

 

[Octopus]

I was on a seminar yesterday morning where the 18th was discussed and speaker already had his book. Anyway he commented that 411.3.4 All circuits must be 30mA protected. Clause 443 Surge Protection will be standard on all installs. 521.10.202 wiring systems supported everywhere with non flamible fixings. Arc Protection that his stance was to add them to Design Deviations due to them being too new to the market and manufacturers not being fully set up for them. 2021 Regs book, earth rods install will become part of the standard install for all installations. Laboured on the fact before starting any work even before demolition works its mandatory to check the earthing arrangement first, to prove safe. I gather we have been spared loads on energy efficiency at this point however advised us to look at BS60364-8-2 as this is a taster for what is to come.
As I personally have not received my book yet I cant comment further.

Who was running the seminar?

 

[mydigitalhome]

Hi Murdoch, The institution of lighting professionals along with some major players in London. Really good day far better than the Cinema showing today.

 

[sparkdog]

Got my Big Blue Book today, practically no mention of AFDs in it.

 

[mydigitalhome]

421.1.7 are recommended....
532.6
lets see what the next revision of regs ses bet there will be lots more. On monday I was told that two weeks ago they were already discussing what would be included in the next update as some contributing members/bodies were at the seminar.

 

[rolyberkin]

In my view AFDD's will come down massively in price over the next six months and will be fitted into a single size rcbo. Siemens already have one up and running for the european market. Surge protection will be interesting, BG are selling a type 2 single module unit which is retailing for about £80. This is more than some people pay for a fully loaded CU.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Aren’t we supposed to protect the neutral as well as the line?

 

[netblindpaul]

Hi Murdoch, The institution of lighting professionals along with some major players in London. Really good day far better than the Cinema showing today.

Was that the one at Hammersmith Town Hall?
If so what did you think of the last presentation of the day, if you stayed until the end?

 

[mydigitalhome]

Yes, I did stay to the end, so were you there? Or was that you? Perhaps you can private message me. It was all good with a variety of speaker skills pity about the problems with the projector. As it was suposed to be in the morning some of the points had previously been developed through the day. None the less, lots of experience in the room providing me food for thought. As street lighting is not my specialty found it interesting plus learning about the various sensors that can be applied to a lamp post, person detection/monitoring, gunfire detection etc and that there is a big industry built on adding more features to the humble lamp post that most people are unaware of. I do have previous experience of asset management so know the benefit of good reporting as its vital for any system to be of use, along with lots of training for those who collect information to guarantee its relevance and making sure the correct questions/data is being requested and any flag data is available at the point it is needed. Often the flag data is set to after an event rather than being preemptive.
Look forward to the next one.