18th Edition - opportunity to have our say?

[Octopus]

Link to PE article I was emailed about today:

18th Edition of BS 7671: send us your feedback - IET Electrical - http://electrical.------.org/wiring-matters/64/dpc/index.cfm?utm_source=Adestra&utm_campaign=Wiring%20Matters_March%202017&utm_medium=Wiring%20Matters&utm_content=Wiring%20Matters%20Magazine%20quarterly%20technical%20news&utm_term=http%3A%2F%2Felectrical.------.org%2Fwiring-matters%2F64%2Fdpc%2Findex.cfm&utm_contact=1100376306

Not sure it'll be worth wasting my time BUT we ALL need to give them feedback - for what its worth!

 

[Andy78]

Is the DPC out yet ?

 

[Octopus]

Damp Proof Course?

 

[Andy78]

lol, Draft for public comment

 

[bigspark17]

Any major changes in 18th known yet.?

 

[The Ghost]

I've signed up, could be most interesting. Especially when they hear my idiotic comments and rants.

 

[mattg4321]

I've got only one request.

Scrap all the scams and replace with one not-for-profit scheme that properly vets its 'members'. Heavily advertise it to make the public aware. Don't allow anyone but proper time served sparks to certify. No kitchen fitters, no plumbers, no 5 week wonders with no on site experience, no one who is 'going to do my AM2 soon'.

Of course I know thats not really an area BS 7671 covers but I'm in the mood for a rant!

 

[mattg4321]

Although we do need to carefully watch the possibly introduction of AFDD's. From what I've read this is going to open a massive can of worms. The fallout from 'A3 consumer units' on here will be nothing compared to this.

Might need an organised protest to force a rethink, although I'm aware I'm not fully up to speed with the devices to be honest.

 

[Dave the spark]

Although we do need to carefully watch the possibly introduction of AFDD's. From what I've read this is going to open a massive can of worms. The fallout from 'A3 consumer units' on here will be nothing compared to this.

Might need an organised protest to force a rethink, although I'm aware I'm not fully up to speed with the devices to be honest.

AFDD's?

 

[PEG]

Arc fault detection...one per circuit,testing possibilities dubious,cost unknown...

 

[Dave the spark]

Arc fault detection...one per circuit,testing possibilities dubious,cost unknown...

Does this look a goer?!

 

[Octopus]

Arc fault detection...one per circuit,testing possibilities dubious,cost unknown...

And God only knows why the IET think they should be added....

 

[PEG]

I am not sure how long the IET has invested time in this latest panic-fest.

In my opinion,the constant search for "potential" (and that's an important word,here) causes of electrically based primary accidents,is getting "graspy".

It is yet one more additional cost/test/inconvenience,for both the installer,tester and user,and yet,the constant steady factor in the greater number of these incidents,is what we have known forever.

I'm gonna drone on,now...

A mirror parallel can be drawn,with the prevention,detection and treatment of cancer.

The race and fervour for attacking this issue (and understandably so),can often be counter intuitive.

The aggressive investigating,treating etc,can sometimes even cause,more of the very thing you are fighting.

Whereas doing simple things from the beginning,such as diet,avoiding known causes,is known to be more effective.

Installations designed,fitted and modified properly,are,i feel,a better deterrent.

If we are inventing ways to overcome every possible safety scenario,i could design a MCB module,which detects variations in current,over a given time period,out of character of normal usage,therefore avoiding a L/N fault maybe resulting in a fire.

It will be big,expensive,require training to fit,and will be 1000 nuisance trip calls extra every week.
It may prevent one fire in a year.

So who's signing up?

 

[freddo]

Those stupid things are only useful in countries that use aluminium wiring in domestic properties, something that is (fortunately) very very rare here.

As above, ban all non skilled persons from carrying out any electrical work, including tasks such as replacing sockets and light fittings. Every electrician to have a licence and be properly assessed to ensure standards are being met.

We do a quite a bit of work for a large international company, the task is straightforward, or should be, but we keep getting f****d over by some of the companies who attend the sites first. having to re-do terminations and glands, correctly identify conductors, re-label circuits that have been mixed up are all very common. A simple inspection of the work would have their electricians licence removed. It's incredible the number of installers that are incapable of stripping the insulation off of the conductors of armoured cables without cutting (often deeply!) into the copper, was checking one isolator and only the centre wire from each conductor was left!

Ban them all!!

So who's signing up?

I did, but knowing this sort of thing, the changes have already been decided.

 

[GMES]

AFDD's are another American import if I'm not mistaken. Tony who was a Member on here was warning about them for a long time and He is pretty clued up on them and their downfalls.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...-fire/&usg=AFQjCNFh0RynWFo3ahb-wZIdtIgID2UokQ

 

[Octopus]

An extract from the above link:


"
Can arc fault detection devices distinguish between dangerous and working arcs?

Yes. Arc fault detection devices are extremely sensitive and designed to sense and respond only to potentially dangerous arcs. They use a special algorithm to distinguish between dangerous and working arcs – i.e. the harmless sparks that you see when you flick a switch or pull a plug.
This is important as over-sensitive AFDDs could be prone to nuisance tripping – e.g. interrupting a circuit when it senses the slightest harmless arc."

So more hassle for home owners, as if RCD's don't create enough hassle at the moment

 

[GMES]

Some more info on them:

 

[Rpa07]

This is the first I've heard of the AFDDs but I cannot see them doing a job that already MCBs do for Line/neutral faults as an arc after all is surely a short circuit of negligible impedance or it would not arc in the first place!
I also think that an RCD protected group of circuits would detect an arc through the CPC as an imbalance and trip within the times required.
People at the top of the banana tree (not you GMES) need to understand or recognise that fires are primarly due to poor workmanship or non CE marked appliances and accessories, both of which can be addressed as was mentioned earlier with the cancer analogy, by pre-emptive measures.

 

[freddo]

The devices detect arcing from loose connections not short circuits. I wonder if it would trip when I'm messing around with carbon arc lights?

 

[PEG]

The manufacturers,will tell us,that these devices uses complicated algorithms,to determine whether or not,the detected "arc",is likely to risk a fire. Although how these devices would know the difference between an accidental,and a deliberate example,i do not know.

It is worth remembering,that pre 2007,much of the free world's finance and lending structure,was predicated on complicated algorithms...still,no harm done