18th edition question

[suffolkspark]

Be interested to hear what spin has to say, if this turns out to be wrong well fair enough. But I cant help thinking it's not going to be wrong.
Has nobody else done the 18th, was there no discussion of this?

I did it a month back and we were told by the tutor cables above a plasterboard ceiling need not be supported by metalic fixings... So the opposite of your tutor.... This trade is getting a joke

 

[Nigel]

I did it a month back and we were told by the tutor cables above a plasterboard ceiling need not be supported by metalic fixings... So the opposite of your tutor.... This trade is getting a joke

Clearly bolloxs. The Reg is very clear.

 

[Silly Sausage]

For someone who works in the rail industry, think before casting one's stones!

 

[Ian1981]

Next we will be told that cables behind plasterboard walls need additional support

 

[Nigel]

Next we will be told that cables behind plasterboard walls need additional support

Do you use plaster as a cable support?

 

[Ian1981]

Do you use plaster as a cable support?

No I’m not a mud slinger?
Do you?

 

[netblindpaul]

The fire rating of plasterboard was raised during the discussion, but this was not considered to meet the requirement for supporting wiring systems

Which discussion please?
Every public discussion involving the IET, Certsure, or NAPIT has stated that a plasterboard ceiling is fine as a fire break, thus anything above is fine without metallic fixings.

 

[Octopus]

Clearly bolloxs. The Reg is very clear.

Hum ............... please expand on that!

 

[DPG]

Do you use plaster as a cable support?

Do you fully clip every cable you run under floorboards?

 

[Silly Sausage]

Now I’m very much in danger of possible ridicule but sod it
This is the NICEIC guidance on the matter taken from their 18th edition suite guide
Yes they do not write the regulations etc etc but as a member of their scheme I very much support and agree with this advice View attachment 45557 View attachment 45556

I never ever thought I'd agree with something the NICEIC says!

 

[telectrix]

that niceic guidance clearly states that cables above ceilings are not an entanglement risk.

 

[Dave OCD]

Now we're using their guidance to our benefit, normally everybody says it's a load of old -------s.

 

[Octopus]

Now we're using their guidance to our benefit, normally everybody says it's a load of old ********.

I wouldn't say its to our benefit ................ the regs, as written are ambiguous ........ the NICEIC seem to have come to a conclusion that plasterboard is sufficient protection ..............

So its unlikely that Wirepuller is on a NICEIC course .......

 

[Nigel]

So done the 18th Edition today. The exam bloke stated to me that fire boards are ok - don’t need fire proof clips and also AFDDs are recommeded for all dwellings (sleeping accommodation).

 

[Ian1981]

I’d have thought sleeping accommodation as in the word accommodation would imply hotels ,HMO’s and the like

 

[Nigel]

I’d have thought sleeping accommodation as in the word accommodation would imply hotels ,HMO’s and the like

Same as me - hence the clarification sought by me. Apparently it is to be taken literally.

 

[ipf]

I’d have thought sleeping accommodation as in the word accommodation would imply hotels ,HMO’s and the like

Does that include bus stop shelters?

 

[Ian1981]

Does that include bus stop shelters?

Hahah

 

[Colin33]

I thought that fires were a thing of the past since the introduction of AMD 3? Have I been cutting and filing neat little IP maintaining holes in metal boxes for nothing?

 

[alasdairp]

Some interesting discussions above. I want to revisit an earlier topic discussion about arc detection from the IET Guidance Doc that was linked to above:

Chapter 42 Protection against thermal effects
"A new Regulation 421.1.7 has been introduced recommending the installation of arc fault detection devices (AFDDs) to mitigate the risk of fire in AC final circuits of a fixed installation due to the effects of arc fault currents."

How can a "Regulation" (which is necessarily enforced) make a "recommendation" (which by definition cannot be legally enforced). They are not the same legal entities - they have different legal meanings. I am going to formally ask the IET and the BSI about this. It is likely to cause a lot of frustrating legal and insurance liability issues. The IET could put it in the "On Site" Guide as a recommendation, but it should not be in BS7671 as a Regulation. OR, they should make it a mandatory legal requirement (which I would not support as I think it would be OTT).

Can someone please copy and paste 421.1.7 directly from the 18th Ed Regs as I do not need to buy a copy as I do not do any installation or inspection work these days (I am 67 and retired). Thanks!