2391-52 practical assessment - testing sequence

[1985]

Hi guys, i have my 2391-52 practical assessment tomorrow and my assessor has said we have to perform the tests in sequence as stated in gn3 - 2.6.4

Few questions i have are:

Once i complete safe isolation procedure and remove cover first up is continuity of protective conductors, surely it's a good idea to do my ze at this stage also while the installation is safely isolated and locked off although it is not technically in the correct sequence?

Also onnce i have completed my dead tests i need to ask for permission to re energise installation which i get but i have to do this with DB cover off as i still need to perform Polarity of supply, Phase rotation, PFC etc. so my question is that ok to take locks and signs off and re energise installation with the cover off the DB's?

 

[hightower]

Testing procedure is defined for new installation work, EICR won't need to follow procedure to the rule as you are right with what you say, makes sense to test for dead, test for supply polarity, Ze and Pfc, and phase rotation, all at the same time. We were encouraged to do it this way by our instructor when I recently did my 2391-52.

If you do it this way you won't need your cover off to energise - you should have done all your tests, ask for permission to energise, cover on, power on. Reason to ask before putting cover on is to give assessor a chance to check you've put neutral bar back etc, but don't energise with cover off, they'll take you straight out the bay if you do that.

Couple tips to ensure you get it right:

If you remove neutral link for IR, PUT IT BACK STRAIGHT AFTER
Remove your main earth for Ze, and PUT IT STRAIGHT BACK BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE
Don't forget to flick 2-way switching for IR
Don't forget to null your leads at appropriate points
After you've finished your 3-phase board and energised, check for dead again at the single-phase board

If you do something dangerous you'll be thrown out. If you forget to do something not dangerous, like to remove parallel paths for Ze or flick your switches for IR, it's important to tell your assessor "I realised I didn't do this and I'm going to repeat the test now correctly and any other tests that need repeating because of it" - your assessor may see you do it incorrectly, but then if you quietly repeat it correctly he might not spot that, so tell him where you go wrong.

 

[1985]

Testing procedure is defined for new installation work, EICR won't need to follow procedure to the rule as you are right with what you say, makes sense to test for dead, test for supply polarity, Ze and Pfc, and phase rotation, all at the same time. We were encouraged to do it this way by our instructor when I recently did my 2391-52.

If you do it this way you won't need your cover off to energise - you should have done all your tests, ask for permission to energise, cover on, power on. Reason to ask before putting cover on is to give assessor a chance to check you've put neutral bar back etc, but don't energise with cover off, they'll take you straight out the bay if you do that.

Couple tips to ensure you get it right:

If you remove neutral link for IR, PUT IT BACK STRAIGHT AFTER
Remove your main earth for Ze, and PUT IT STRAIGHT BACK BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE
Don't forget to flick 2-way switching for IR
Don't forget to null your leads at appropriate points
After you've finished your 3-phase board and energised, check for dead again at the single-phase board

If you do something dangerous you'll be thrown out. If you forget to do something not dangerous, like to remove parallel paths for Ze or flick your switches for IR, it's important to tell your assessor "I realised I didn't do this and I'm going to repeat the test now correctly and any other tests that need repeating because of it" - your assessor may see you do it incorrectly, but then if you quietly repeat it correctly he might not spot that, so tell him where you go wrong.

Thanks mate, yeah thats exactly what i thought but he seems to think its two separate tests as in and EIC and an EICR but i think he's got confused. I will get there early tomorrow and confirm with him before i start maybe.

As i'd like to do it in something like this order:

- safe isolation procedure
- Supply Polarity
- Ze
- PFC ( PEFC + PSCC )
- Phase rotation
- Bonding
- Supplementary Bonding
- circuit continuity ( R1+R2 ) also polarity
- Ring final steps 1,2,3
- IR
- Covers on then ask to re energise
- ZS tests
- RCD tests
- Functional tests

Would you agree with this?

Also once my 3 phase board cover is on and my db2 cover is on i can rcd test the ring on the 3 phase board at the socket but on the single phase db2 i have 3 rcbo's one radial sockets which is fine and 2 lighting circuits. Should i rcd test at the light pendants then as the covers are back on at this point?

thanks for your help

 

[Andy5678]

I did Ze after the dead tests, assessor was ok with the cover being off

 

[1985]

I did Ze after the dead tests, assessor was ok with the cover being off

Ah this is it, there are so many conflicting views it's confusing. I know exactly what iv'e got to do test wise but i just don't wanna do it in a different sequence and get failed for something silly like that you know

 

[hightower]

Make sure you ask to energise before putting your cover on, not cover on first. The 52 is tricky, because it is 2 tests - you do an EIC and also an EICR, but they put it all in the same assessment to fit it all in so the lines get blurred a bit. Our instructor said treat it all as an EICR though and then fill out the separate certs as appropriate

 

[1985]

Make sure you ask to energise before putting your cover on, not cover on first. The 52 is tricky, because it is 2 tests - you do an EIC and also an EICR, but they put it all in the same assessment to fit it all in so the lines get blurred a bit. Our instructor said treat it all as an EICR though and then fill out the separate certs as appropriate

Thanks mate,

How did you find the 30 minutes going through photos giving them codes and the non compliance etc. seems like thats can be a bit tricky also as you never get two electricians agreeing on the same code lol

 

[hightower]

Thanks mate,

How did you find the 30 minutes going through photos giving them codes and the non compliance etc. seems like thats can be a bit tricky also as you never get two electricians agreeing on the same code lol

It was a bit of a pain in the backside to be honest, but you get a 'resit' so don't fret too much about it.

 

[1985]

Thanks for your help mate

 

[Andy5678]

I did it the way I was shown in the weeks training. After all it was the same guy that did the assessment. I found the pictures and questions ok.

The practical is the worst as you know there is faults there and you don’t want to miss any as it will be an instant fail. So no pressure...

 

[hightower]

One of my faults was that there was a break in one of the lines on the 3-phase motor circuit. I started doing a bit further testing as wasn't sure if that was enough, and found out L1 and N had been reversed.

Assessor came over, "have you found the faults?" I said "yeah, I found a break on L1 and investigating further told me L1 had been reversed with N". He said "what? No, it's just a break in L1". I told him what I'd found and it took him back a bit I think that I'd gone that bit further, like he wasn't expecting it. "Nah, just put down break in L1, forget about what the other bit"

 

[1985]

I did it the way I was shown in the weeks training. After all it was the same guy that did the assessment. I found the pictures and questions ok.

The practical is the worst as you know there is faults there and you don’t want to miss any as it will be an instant fail. So no pressure...

LOL cheers mate no pressure

 

[1985]

One of my faults was that there was a break in one of the lines on the 3-phase motor circuit. I started doing a bit further testing as wasn't sure if that was enough, and found out L1 and N had been reversed.

Assessor came over, "have you found the faults?" I said "yeah, I found a break on L1 and investigating further told me L1 had been reversed with N". He said "what? No, it's just a break in L1". I told him what I'd found and it took him back a bit I think that I'd gone that bit further, like he wasn't expecting it. "Nah, just put down break in L1, forget about what the other bit"

Ah nice one. Yeah iv'e got a motor circuit to test also. Got to make sure i R1+R2 and IR the outgoing side of the starter. Be glad when it's all done and out the way bloody hate exams

 

[hightower]

Yeah, other tip I should have added, is straight after safe isolation go round and take out all lamps, bypass all accessories likely to damage, link out anything that can't be IR tested through (starter, dimmer maybe).

 

[Baker1988]

I have not done the 2391 so i may be wrong but surely you can still do the Ze as the incoming teminals will still be live as you have only turned off the main isolator but the tails are teminated into that so you still can do Ze and pfc without asking to power up.

 

[AJshep]

I'd disagree...

Do your tests in the sequences in the book.

Let's remember you are being tested on 2 modules initial verification and periodic.
You only have one practical combined test
although your right in saying that a EICR can be done in any order, and I understand from what I've seen your actual completing the EICR first ..
But remember you will approach your testing rig with everything isolated so I would just carry it out in the intial verification sequence to show you understand..


Also from a health and safety point of view i know some colleges will be happy with you calculating your Zs readings. And your test rig CU will be plugged into an RCD socket so you would probably have to ask the examiner to plug it in anyway.

 

[AJshep]

I'd disagree...

Do your tests in the sequences in the book.

Let's remember you are being tested on 2 modules initial verification and periodic.
You only have one practical combined test
although your right in saying that a EICR can be done in any order, and I understand from what I've seen your actual completing the EICR first ..
But remember you will approach your testing rig with everything isolated so I would just carry it out in the intial verification sequence to show you understand..

Also from a health and safety point of view i know some colleges will be happy with you calculating your Zs readings. And your test DB is probably plugged into an RCD socket anyway under lock and key so you would have to ask the examiner to plug it in..

 

[Diver233]

Hi guys, i have my 2391-52 practical assessment tomorrow and my assessor has said we have to perform the tests in sequence as stated in gn3 - 2.6.4

Few questions i have are:

Once i complete safe isolation procedure and remove cover first up is continuity of protective conductors, surely it's a good idea to do my ze at this stage also while the installation is safely isolated and locked off although it is not technically in the correct sequence?

Also onnce i have completed my dead tests i need to ask for permission to re energise installation which i get but i have to do this with DB cover off as i still need to perform Polarity of supply, Phase rotation, PFC etc. so my question is that ok to take locks and signs off and re energise installation with the cover off the DB's?

How did you get on in the exam,