• IMPORTANT: Please note that nobody on this forum should be seeking from or providing advice to those who are not competent and / or trained and qualified in their field (local laws permitting). There is a discussion thread on this global industry-wide matter HERE. This also has more information about the warning with regards to sharing electrical advice in some countries. By using this forum you do so in agreement to this.

Discuss 411.3.3 omitting an rcd in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

Welcome to ElectriciansForums.net - The American Electrical Advice Forum
Head straight to the main forums to chat by click here:   American Electrical Advice Forum

mhar

-
Esteemed
Arms
Reaction score
402
Doing an EIC and just making sure that I understand this correctly.

I have a domestic installation where I have run 2 x swa cables out to pumps. Pump 1 is purely for an emergency pump in the event that the area behind a protective bank should start to flood (where there is a septic tank). Pump 2 is specified by the septic tank installation designers to clear the 'processed' water well away from the water course.

My original intention was to terminate each swa into rotary isolators which were going to be on a tank installation manufacturer supplied elevated ip rated platform. However, when this platform arrived it came with two moulded c form socket outlets and no space for my isolators. It looks a bit like a bird table with a plastic lid. I have therefore had to connect to two socket outlets bringing me under the scope of 411.3.3.

If I label these two non-rcd protected ways on the cu with the black on yellow tape, I believe this would have me covered under exception (i) (b).

About right or is there a bit more to it?
 
Sounds good to me (unless the pumps are in a Special Location covered in Part 7 of the regs, or the manufacturer's instructions require an RCD). If the label is permanent, suitable for the intended life of the installation, you're good to go. :)

Edit: just re-reading your post: the label needs to be at the socket-outlet. (Also label up your board as usual).
 
You could never guarantee someone will not knock up an extension lead and use them for general use.
 
The exception to providing RCD protection for socket-outlets applies to socket-outlets not circuits.
You need to lable the socket-outlets, not stick a bit of tape on an MCB.
 
Specifically labelled or otherwise suitably identified socket-outlet
The exception in indent (b), relating to the omission of RCD protection for specific socket-outlets, is included in both the current and new versions of the regulation.

It is stressed that the exception may only be applied for a socket-outlet that has been provided for the connection of a particular item of equipment. The socket-outlet must be labelled or otherwise suitably identified so that users will be clearly informed that the socket-outlet is intended only for plugging in that particular item of equipment and for no other purpose. Unless the electrical installation designer is convinced that the socket-outlet cannot reasonably be expected to be used for other purposes, RCD protection for that socket-outlet should not be omitted.
 
I read the original post as "two pumps, on two individual (non-RCD-protected) circuit breakers," i.e. with no other sockets on those circuits. If there are other sockets on the circuit, clearly they'll need RCD protection.

The socket outlets are 16A (?) cee forms, adjacent to the pumps. The designer will have to consider how likely it is someone will unplug the pumps, and plug in a 16A plug for something else.
 
Happy steve, exactly right.

I will need to label the socket outlets but it couldn't be more obvious that they serve a specific purpose.
 
On my old phone which no longer functions I have a picture of a labelled socket for fridge use only, it has no rcd protection while all the rest do. What is plugged into it, the kettle.
 
I have a dedicated circuit for our fridge freezer - you can't use the pulg unless you pull the fridge out. The circuit is protected by a MCB and there are no labels.

As far as I'm concerned this is OK but under the 18th, as I understand it, this won't be allowed ............... which is daft.
 
At one point I used the MK plugs and sockets with 't' shaped earth pins for dedicated fridge/freezer radials without additional RCD protection, these days though such a circuit could be on an independent RCBO.
 
You don’t need to label sockets, if their purpose is easily identifiable.
For instance a socket behind a washing machine or other under counter appliance, a socket next to a boiler in an airing cupboard or even a socket next to a TV aerial point.
 
Read the regulation, pretty sure labelled socket is mentioned in the text.
It’s common sense as if it’s not behind an appliance what’s to inform the user that it’s not rcd protected.
Your example makes sense so in the case of the socket being fed via a DP switch or spur, I would label the switch.
 
Last edited:

Reply to 411.3.3 omitting an rcd in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by Untold Media. Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top