5.7KW double oven into kitchen ring

[Sav]

Hi everyone,
Hope your all getting ready for the big 2011 !!

Just a quick question.
Doing a quote for some kitchen lights and saw the kitychen fitters there.
They are installing a Neff 5.7kw double oven and have broken the kitchen ring and fed the 2.5mm into an outlet for the oven to be connected. There are 2 x 2.5mm into the outlet, thus keeping the ring continuous.
I thought that anything over 2.5kw had to have its own supply (as this is approx 24amps).
Is this ok, they said they have done it before and I guess diversity comes into this as well.
Anyway, I hope you can shed some light, as I still think, it should have its own supply.
Thanks everyone and have a great New Year ok,
Sav

 

[Guest123]

Appendix 15 reccomends any appliance rated over 2KW should be connected to it's own dedicated circuit so as not to overload the ring final at any one point.

433.1.5 also refers.

 

[Sav]

Thanks Lenny,
But do you think its "safe" what they are doing. I suppose the 5.7kw is the max load of both ovens and grill all going at the same time.
Thanks again and best regards,
Sav

 

[Guest123]

Exactly, with diversity applied the oven will never draw the full 5.7KW as not all of it can be used at once.

 

[telectrix]

Exactly, with diversity applied the oven will never draw the full 5.7KW as not all of it can be used at once.

maybe safe, but definitely bad practice and against regs. the answer to the question is another question. would you be happy to have this done this way in your own house?. i certainly would not.

 

[Guest123]

I personally wouldn't do it but some obviously would.

 

[telectrix]

and have the kettle, washing machine , dishwasher on as well. no need for a tumble dryer, hang the washing on the ring main cables.

 

[Phil]

and have the kettle, washing machine , dishwasher on as well. no need for a tumble dryer, hang the washing on the ring main cables.

be turning off the central heating as well i once went to look at a job and price it with an oven on 10mm on a plug top into the ring. they said the fusey thingy keeps popping. umm i wonder why. i told them what was needed etc and they said nah its not the oven and hob the kitchen fitter said it would be fine so it can`t be overloading? i gave up and left them to it. i think i was more impressed with the 10mm into a plug top

 

[ezzzekiel]

certainly should have its own circuit as its way over the recomendations, as its kitchen work then its notifiable under building regs so when the house burns down they can stand up in court and explain thier calculations and how they complied with bs76

 

[tonys]

Its only going to get worse because more and more property maintenance do it all companies are competing for work and customers are only interested in how cheap they get a job done for.

In one of many rows I had with the niceic inspector (when I was a QS) he agreed there was to many competing in the domestic game and anyone can do the work, he said you need to move more into the commercial and industrial.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

nearly 6kw connected to the ring?....definately a no-no......it might work but that doesnt make it right.........I'd also be a bit concerned about the ring being 'continuous' even if there are 2 cables at the point.........I've never ever ever come across a kitchen fitter who understands a ring. Odds on it'll be broken/bridged/spured/...anything but a bonafida ring.

 

[ian]

nearly 6kw connected to the ring?....definately a no-no......it might work but that doesnt make it right.........I'd also be a bit concerned about the ring being 'continuous' even if there are 2 cables at the point.........I've never ever ever come across a kitchen fitter who understands a ring. Odds on it'll be broken/bridged/spured/...anything but a bonafida ring.

spot on,

ian

 

[Des 56]

Its not good practice using them big thick cables to run cookers, by the way, the ring main is the largest on the hob, easy

Kitchen fitters know these things,thats why theres defined scope for goodness sake
Why do you think most kitchen fitters do the electrics,simples,

 

[Sav]

I agree with you all, and like its been mentioned, once I told the customer that it should be on its own circuit and that their old dolly button mcb consumer unit is not adaquate, as an RCD must be fitted and what the cost and damage was( to get the cable from c/unit to oven position), she quickly said "no thanks, I wont be using both ovens and grill at once anyway" !!
The kitchen fitter reassured her its ok, so I have left them to it.
Thanks for all the info and assistance guys anyway.

Sav

 

[daniel hill]

I defiantly wouldn't want that in my kitchen have they left isolation or just the 2 legs of the ring in the cooker outlet
can the 2.5mm take 32A before it melts and starts a fire
Are Kitchen fitters just that tho, if they were electricians ad rather have that job title than kitchen fitter
Pat P, nic eic reg or even a test certificate ??

 

[Jimmy Boy]

It is with much sadness and with absolutely no desire to see a tragedy, I await the first multiple fatality from these converts to electrical installation work, gas explosions by their nature are seen to more news worthy as happened recently 3 or 4 houses gone, luckily I believe no deaths, the problem is that they may be competent at point of exam and annual inspection, but they have bigger fish to fry ie fitting kitchens and bathrooms etc, and I don't believe that a lot of them can give an electrical installation and the responsibility that goes with it, all the time such a potentially invisible deadly killer deserves, I hope I eat my words and no one dies...but I suspect I wont..

 

[telectrix]

the whole problem is part scope. to me that means part competent, a little knowledge is dangerous. kitchen fitters don't build brick walls, they get a brickie to do it. they don't plaster the room, they sub. to a plasterer. why then do they think , with a few weeks training, they have the knowledge and expertise to design, calculate , and installelectrical circuits. This is, at the end of the day, a highly specialised trade. it's not just a case of wiring something up, doing a quick test ( if any ) and if it works, OK. Sadly, it all boils down to cost. Joe Public want their kitchen completed for £xxxx and is not prepared to pay extra for ensuring safety. as you so rightly say, Steve, one day there will be a tragedy or 2 before something is done about it.

 

[ukpablo]

as long as they save a few quid though eh! makes me laugh sometimes, they buy a house which costs them hundreds of thousands over 25 yrs or more, and when you say that the electrics are not up to standard and it will cost a measley lets say 500 quid to put right, they dont want to know..............................but on the other hand dont mind paying in excess of ten grand on a shiny new kitchen!!!!!!